Chapter Seven: Motherhood: The Ultimate Feminine Role

Chapter Seven: 

Motherhood: The Ultimate Feminine Role

Bev Jo
Linda Strega
Ruston

(Originally published in 1990, I, Bev, have updated this to share online.)

Radical Feminism is about questioning everything we are taught is sacred and unquestionable in patriarchy, from male religion to every other male dictate for females. Radical Feminism means understanding all male cons in both the political and personal, exploring the political effects of each personal decision, and knowing what choices are possible. Motherhood is one of the most important foundations of patriarchy, yet we are taught that choosing it means becoming woman supreme.

Any time we find ourselves being expected to genuflect to and pay homage to any particular group of people, which means valuing ourselves less, we need to deeply think about why we are expected to do that – especially when they are often our oppressors.

This is not about criticizing women who are mothers, but about exploring the institution of motherhood and how it keeps patriarchy going, because women claiming to be Feminists are still choosing motherhood.

Please have no illusions: If you choose to reproduce, you are being incredibly selfish and keeping patriarchy going. Patriarchy and the daily extinction of species would stop very soon if women just stopped reproducing. This is the one thing where each woman’s decision has a massive effect on the future.

Motherhood is one of the biggest cons and cults of patriarchy. Women complain endlessly about how terrible their lives are as mothers, even though most choose it (yes, most women know that if they choose to let men fuck them, pregnancy is likely). At the same time, mothers brag endlessly about being mothers and about their children, particularly sons. They openly pity women who can’t have children. Most participate wholeheartedly in the destructive myth that they are doing something wonderful for society and the earth, when the reality is that they are giving the earth a death sentence. At the very least, mothers do not have to add to the propaganda of motherhood pushed onto all girls and women, yet, in spite of their bitter complaining, most wholeheartedly pressure other females to also reproduce. Why?

One of the dilemmas of talking about the privilege of motherhood is that motherhood is presented by reformist/right wing/liberal feminists as being the most oppressed condition women can experience. What is ignored in this is the power that motherhood has as an institution, how it is promoted with endless media propaganda, and how women who say no are punished. (If you dare say this on most “radfem” sites, you will be banned for telling the truth.)  Like most kinds of privilege you can often only see it when you’re not experiencing it.

Acting out of heterosexuality, reformist feminists focus primarily on men, ignoring Lesbians and women who say no to breeding. (We are an unpleasant reminder that women can and do choose. They would rather we don’t exist.)  Most women are promised much more than they ever get for reproducing the next men and the next women to breed more men, so they are bitter and angry. They make demands on men to help with their children, and then, without any thought about the privilege they have that is directly gotten at the expense of non-mothers, they expect Lesbians and women without children to help take care of those children, as if they have done us all a favor by reproducing and as if we somehow owe them. They also take out their anger at men onto us.

In reality, reproducing is one of the most selfish things a woman can do. The world is horrifically over-populated and adding more humans is killing the planet. If you dare to say this, the most common response is a crazed “But all humans will die out!” as if that is likely at eight billion and growing. These children, who we never had a say about being made, are our direct competition for future survival resources.

The happiest Lesbians seem to be those who came out late, in their forties or fifties, after having husbands, careers, houses, lots of money, and far better health with which to enjoy life. Of course, most wish they had never chosen men to begin with, but they have gotten substantial rewards for reproducing and choosing men, with a far more secure future than most Lifelong Lesbians.

Meanwhile, het Feminists set on keeping this mess going are unwilling to look at their own complicity, and will do anything to avoid taking responsibility for their past choices to be het, or even their current choice of having a man — so they start talking about girls in far-away countries chained to walls, being raped and forced to reproduce, as if that was their own situation, which is designed to shame us into silence. How dare we even question motherhood, enshrined as a cult along with religion and patriotism?

                            The Myths and Mania of Motherhood

To understand why some Lesbians want to be mothers, we need to understand what the mother role has to offer. There are strong Dyke-identified Dykes who are mothers and who don’t expect to be revered for it. But many Lesbians, both mothers and non-mothers, revere the institution of motherhood in the same ways that patriarchy does. They envision matriarchy is as the ideal alternative to patriarchy, but Mother Rule, especially Het Mother Rule, wouldn’t be much of an improvement over Father Rule. What we need is equality between Lesbians, with no one ruling. The way to create that equality is to question and challenge every “truth,” especially sacred “truths,” that we’re taught. That also means questioning much of feminist analysis, especially the parts that reflect het feminists’ heterosexism.

Very few Lesbians question the sacredness of motherhood and the demand that mothers be treated as superior beings in relation to non-mothers. The few who do are  attacked in print, censored, or banned from online groups. The insults are similar to what men and het women call any female who refuses to support the institution of motherhood. That tells us we must continue exploring why patriarchy and feminists so love motherhood. (Amazones d’Hier, Lesbiennes d”Aujourd’hui of Montréal, Québec, Canada, was a wonderful exception to this.)1

There’s a feminist myth that motherhood is the most deeply oppressed, suffering, and hardworking of female conditions, and that, in comparison, non-mothers’ lives are full of fun, irresponsibility, and freedom. Meanwhile, patriarchal propaganda says that motherhood is the only true fulfillment and happiness a female can have, and that childless females (especially Dykes) live pathetic, empty, meaningless, neurotic, lonely, unnatural, and barren lives.

Both of these myths are lies, based on a distortion of truth. The feminist lie is based on the fact that men oppress women and therefore mothers are oppressed by men. Mothers create and raise children for men — boys are future men, and girls are meant to be future creators and incubators of men, as well as servants and fuck objects. Poor mothers who don’t have men supporting them in their mother role have a hard time making enough money to live while also caring for their children. We agree that mothers’ lives can be hard. It’s expensive and time-consuming to raise children. But that hardship is chosen for the privilege involved, and pain and hardship aren’t always the same as oppression. It’s painful to be het, but het women have tremendous social power over Lesbians and oppress us.

Hetness and, in most cases, motherhood, are choices, and both choices come from a commitment to men first. Even when women don’t decide specifically to get pregnant, if they choose to be fucked by men, then they know what the risks are. Women who choose pregnancy gain the particular privilege and respect that only mothers are allowed. (Women often just continue doing what they are told they are supposed to do and follow what “everyone else is doing,” which means choosing men, making babies, etc.  But clearly not every women does that, and trying to fit in and be considered normal is going for privilege. Some women are more calculating and aim to get a man with substantial privilege so they can have security, status, and money, while providing heirs, as well as sexual services as their part of the bargain — higher class monogamous prostitution.)

The feminist lie that defines mothers as oppressed victims ignores the privilege which comes from men declaring that mothers are the women who everyone must love, praise, and admire. It ignores the existence and deeper oppression of Lesbians who aren’t mothers, especially those who’ve always been Lesbians. The patriarchal lie that defines mothers as supremely fulfilled is based on the false “fulfillment” that privilege gives them – only mothers, enacting the most het of roles, are allowed to represent the radiant epitome of womanliness. The rest of us are treated with various levels of contempt, because men consider our lives as barren as they consider our bodies. Many Lesbians ignore the social power that mothers have, like they ignore the power het women have relative to Lesbians. That power is given to mothers and het women by men because men need them. Men couldn’t exist without mothers.

Patriarchy makes a fuss over the physical aspects of how women become mothers, from the het acts of fucking and pregnancy to having a “fertile” body. In patriarchal minds, giving birth makes a Mature Woman out of a girl. Otherwise, all ages of females are just “girls” to men. The baby is the female body’s badge of completeness. As one mother said, “I feel I would be hollow now if I had not been a mother.”2 This glorification is particularly oppressive to females who are physically unable to get pregnant.

The propaganda is that being pregnant is natural and even needed, not just by humans, but by other animals. Some women even force their pets to get pregnant because they think it’s good for them, though for many species, this means being raped. Many female animals are left scarred and injured, and some die as they fight to defend themselves from being raped. In zoos, when they want a species to reproduce, they often shackle the female to be raped because some will fight to the death against the rapists. Being pregnant also sucks the life force from the mother animal. Female bodies respond as though it’s a parasitic invasion and try to kill the fetus. And many women still become permanently disabled or die from pregnancy and childbirth, which is rarely publicized.

Then there’s the social aspect. In every culture we know of, mothers receive far more respect and status than any other group of females, which is why so many women choose to have children. Even patriarchal religions demand, “Honor thy father and thy mother.” Mothers are given their own day — “Mother’s Day.” Businesses praise mothers and give them special discounts — not surprising, since mothers create more consumers. Cards and gifts are sent in their honor, and both the patriarchal and feminist media laud mothers.

Feminist and Lesbian stars do special concerts and events for mothers. One of the largest annual gatherings of Lesbians in the world, the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, has been called “a gathering of mothers and daughters,” with mothers therefore doubly welcomed. That means females who are and were het were publicly more welcomed than Lifelong Lesbians and Lesbians who’ve never been het. It also means non-mothers were automatically put in the inferior position of daughters. What other female or Lesbian group is as regularly and institutionally acknowledged and praised as are mothers? No wonder most Lesbian mothers identify first as “mothers” and second as “Lesbians.”

Many employers give special benefits to mothers, and many pay for extensive maternity leave. Some employers and governments provide free childcare. Non-mother Lesbians pay taxes to support those benefits without getting similar benefits when we’re ill or having to look after our lovers and friends who need care. Many feminist groups also provide childcare or money for childcare. (Bev: I taught self-defense classes for girls and women for ten years for Bay Area Women Against Rape. After administrative changes in the group, my $100 a month salary was eliminated, while office staff members received full salary plus $400 a month extra for childcare. Self defense classes are among the most important support that such groups can give to girls and women. I was committed to never being able to leave the area for more than a week for most of ten years since I taught each week, but mothers had priority.)

In Lesbian communities, more Lesbian money has been donated to Lesbian mothers than any other group, particularly for custody cases, while most other Lesbians’ needs are largely ignored. Since the new A.I. (“artificially inseminated”) mothers became the majority of mothers in Lesbian communities, that means they’re likely to get the majority of funding. There’s usually little or no organized financial support for Lesbians who have other responsibilities, such as caring for ill or dying friends and lovers. How much money and support has been raised for homeless, hungry, terminally ill, disabled, and/or imprisoned Dykes compared to money raised for childcare and custody cases? How many Lesbian events welcome children free (including boys), even if the mothers are rich, and then refuse to let in poor Dykes who can’t pay? Lesbians are simply valued less. Why give the most help to those who provide a future for the patriarchy? Children are future men and potentially future het women, while Lesbians merely stay Lesbians. The richly funded “Lesbian Rights” project in San Francisco is almost completely devoted to Lesbian mothers’ and even Gay fathers’ custody cases. “Lesbian Rights” has become synonymous with “Mothers’ Rights”!  (Meanwhile, the “National Center for Lesbian Rights,” with their enormous budget, primarily works for men, including the very men who are destroying our last female only spaces.)

Lesbians who get pregnant assume they can demand support. (Bev: A few years ago, I organized meetings for Lesbians to discuss Lesbian Separatism. One of the Lesbians who sounded very anti-male and agreed that males were inherently dangerous, was pregnant with a boy. I didn’t know her well, but she actually announced she would have me “on diaper duty” for her baby boy. I told her it’s the last thing I would do. A couple of years later, she confided that her still young son is proof of how boys just throw rocks and there is nothing she can do to stop him.)

Motherhood gives an aura of respectability to a Lesbian that nothing else does except going het. The next best thing to being a wife and mother is to at least be a mother. That’s half of the male definition of “woman.” Motherhood gives surrogate wife status. It’s as close as a Lesbian can come to being heterosexual.14 Lesbians have been considered immature by patriarchy and its psychologists, but becoming a mother means becoming a full adult. Mothers of boys get even more privilege, because males are more valued. This increased privilege for Lesbian mothers is gained at the expense of Lesbian non-mothers.

Too many times we’ve heard Lesbians say that mothers should be particularly respected. The prominence of Lesbian mothers in the Lesbian media is an effort to prove that we’re acceptable by het standards — that we’re not alien, inexplicable, Dykey monsters and that we’re family, feminine, wifely, domestic, motherly, and normal. When mothers and ex-het Lesbians are focused on in this way, it’s at the expense of Butch, Never-het, and Life-long Lesbians. In effect, they’re saying, “We’re not perverts like them. Some Lesbians (us!) are real women.”

One of the highest compliments many Lesbians think they can make is to call someone a mother, even if she isn’t. A Dyke who’d never been het worked many years to help create female-only land. The Lesbians who admired her called her a “founding mother.” A well-meaning Dyke bestowed the term “mothers” on us because our political work meant so much to her. She intended it as warm praise, and we appreciated that, but it was actually a negation of all non-mothers. It’s a male lie that females’ potential ability to breed is the well-spring of our energy, spirituality, inventiveness, protectiveness, and kindness. All these qualities stem from our Dykeness. They’re female, not motherly, qualities.  It hurts us a people and culture when Lesbians continue male propaganda among ourselves by saying that non-biological mothers can become mothers through our creativity.

Part of mothers’ power comes from the myth of their being more wise, responsible, caring, loving, and unselfish than anyone else. “Only a mother knows.” The propaganda is everywhere. Try keeping a list of how many times you see motherhood promoted in the media. A newspaper ad showed a mother and baby with the caption “One of the most important jobs in the world ….” A survey of 1000 U.S. women found that 60% said motherhood is the best thing about being a woman.3 A magazine ad described the reverence given to pregnant women:

I felt this incredible sense of well being. There is really nothing like it. People beam at you. They offer you their seats on the bus. Total strangers walk up to you in the supermarket and ask you if they can touch your stomach. Everywhere you go, you feel like your stomach is announcing: “Here I am! I’m making a baby!” Your parents look at you differently, too. My mother was glad I was finally doing something constructive.

In an interview, one woman said, “Everyone pampers you — sometimes even complete strangers. Also, I felt more womanly while pregnant.”

Another said, “…when I was pregnant, I felt that it was acceptable to be ‘fat.’ For the first time, I really liked my body and that was truly liberating.”4

In another article, titled “Battle of the Bulge — When Pregnancy Feels Like an Enemy Invasion,” a woman says:

 “…the first time I ventured onto a bus with my infant son … a young man whom I would have gone out of my way to avoid on a dark street offered me his seat.”5 In another article, a woman who already has six adopted children says, “Actually making a baby is something very important to me. It makes me feel whole.” The writers go on to say, “The need to be fruitful and multiply is a thing of beauty, an impulse to be adored and respected.”6

These aren’t exaggerations. Motherhood is the primary way females are allowed to feel like someone important. In some cultures, like Nazi Germany, mothers are or were given medals by their governments when they produce a large number of children. In others, they’re given honorific titles as part of their names. In the US, a fundamentalist Euro-descent couple is repeatedly put on the cover of national magazines as they have yet another baby. At last count, they’d reached twenty. It’s obscene.

We know Lesbians who say their lives dramatically changed when they became mothers. As Cheryl Jones wrote about being pregnant:

“Strangers on the street talked to me for the first time in years. They were friendly … the difference was that because I’m a lesbian, no one had talked to me on the street for years!  What a strange experience to go from being ‘persona non grata’ to womanhood’s prime exemplar!”7

Those who have sons, especially, are treated with a deference they’d never experienced before, by men, het women, and Lesbians. They finally felt accepted by their families. Even those who identified openly as Lesbians said their neighbors became warmer and more welcoming. The ways they were treated by strangers were also dramatically different when they had children with them.

An acquaintance who became lovers with the mother of a five-year-old boy told us they took him apartment-hunting because landlords were so much more friendly when they presented themselves as mother, son, and friend. Whenever they went without him, they were treated with wariness and hostility.

We knew two Lesbians in a couple, a mother and a non-mother, who were treated very differently by the same food stamp worker, although they were equally qualified for assistance, came from similar backgrounds, and weren’t very different in appearance and behavior. The mother, who brought her daughter to the interview, was treated in a friendly way and assured that she would receive her food stamps as quickly as possible. The non-mother was treated harshly and got her food stamps only after obstacles and delays.

Non-mother Lesbians who are with children are usually assumed to be mothers and also get preferential treatment. Whenever one of us accompanied friends’ young daughters in public, we were astounded at how much better we were treated than when alone or with adult Lesbians. Women smiled benignly and acted comfortable with us, instead of being hostile. It made going out in public immeasurably easier. Even the most obvious-looking Lesbian becomes more acceptable if she’s with a child. As one Lesbian we know said, ”When I walk down the street with a friend’s baby, I’m no longer the fat Butchy Dyke I’ve been all my life.”

A Radical Feminist in one of our online groups wrote:

Mothers are privileged and I am forever frustrated at how other women who aren’t feminists are sucked into wishing for motherhood to obtain that privilege and attention. Last night, there was a whole group of what appeared to be coworkers at a restaurant I was at. They were celebrating a baby shower and everyone was excited and praising this woman for her pregnancy. Even the males present were excited and lavishing attention on her. There were children attending also and all I could think about was how every little girl at that table was seeing the admiration and attention that the pregnant woman was receiving, and how even the strangers at another table offered congratulations to her. It was one of those moments where discussions on this thread were playing themselves out right in front of me. This was all brought to a head by another female friend at the table looking adoringly at her boyfriend/husband and saying “I can’t wait to be able to be a mother.” It was horrifying, like some kind of love fest for this pregnant woman. It’s no wonder that women think they want to have kids. Look at the importance placed on it! It was ridiculous!

Mothers in public places frequently demand attention from everyone around them. It’s not unusual to see a mother in a store talking very loudly to her child while she looks around expectantly for compliments. Mothers of boys are more likely to act this way, but mothers of daughters sometimes do too. It’s a way of showing off to the world that they’re mothers. They take up a great deal of physical and psychic space with their demands for attention, expecting everyone, particularly other females, to pay homage to them. One example: In a doctor’s office, there was a mother with a young boy who was running around the waiting room, yelling. His mother commented loudly on his every move, announcing that he was going to be a doctor because he picked up a toy stethoscope. She could care less that people in a doctors’ office might be sick or in pain and needing quiet.

Another example: We were in a park, sitting by a pond with fish, celebrating one of our birthdays. Other women were drawing and talking quietly in this peaceful space, with plenty of room for everyone. Then a class-privileged-looking mother of a very young boy came up and sat so close that she touched one of us, even though there were other empty seats near the pond. She held her son out in front of her, literally pushing him in our faces, saying loudly, “Look at the fish, dear!” The boy looked completely bored. She repeatedly told him to notice the fish, while looking expectantly at us. We ignored her, which wasn’t easy, considering the noise she was making and the fact that she was brushing against one of us. Then she asked if she was bothering us. When we said yes, we’d rather not be shoved, she began yelling at us. We reminded her, quietly and politely, that she had asked us and we were only responding. She continued yelling, so we told her that we just wanted to be left in the peace that was there before she came. She walked away, screaming, “You must be Lesbians! You must be Lesbian Separatists! Well, I fuck men!” (The other women at the pond looked at her like she was crazy.) We’d said nothing to her about men, boys, het women, heterosexuality, or being Lesbians. We simply had refused to smile at her and her boy.

                                 “Don’t You Dare Talk Back!”

The pain a mother suffers is considered more important and serious than any other female pain. A ludicrous example is when a Lesbian we knew said that she was in emotional agony because “A mother’s pain is the greatest pain. No one else feels as much as a mother.” She wasn’t even a mother, but imagined she was because she had been trying to adopt a girl. Even after being denied the adoption, she was already identifying with the mother role and being oppressive to non-mothers. Mothers are also considered more important, as shown throughout the media, when it’s mentioned that a mother has been injured. Clearly the constant message is that non-mothers being hurt or killed matter less.

The main reason Lesbians believe mothers are more oppressed than non-mothers is because mothers use their privilege to demand special treatment. Their demands have quite an impact when they’re delivered in the authoritarian, shocked tones that mothers use for “naughty” children. It is, after all, the mother’s role to be obeyed without question. They use the same controlling behavior towards non-mothers as they use on their daughters. As the old saying goes, “God created mothers because he couldn’t be everywhere at once.” Lesbians who challenge mothers’ privilege are likely to be treated as if we were “disobeying” them, even when we’re a great deal older than the mothers. Mothers expect Lesbians, as well as their children, to treat them with the same reverence.

Few non-mothers have had the experience of talking to others in quite such condescending ways. As a US bumpersticker says, “I’m the Mom, that’s why!” Mothers have the authority that comes only from having total control and ownership of someone else, including literally having the power of life and death over their children. One mother we knew said she was exhilarated by the power she had over her daughter, joking that it would be easy to foul up her daughter’s life by teaching the wrong words for everything.

The powerlessness of young girls is one key to understanding the power of mothers. Motherhood also gives females power over males that non-mothers rarely have. A friend of ours said that raising sons made it possible for her to know about how to talk to adult male strangers as if they were little boys, and sometimes they would just respond without question as if they were obeying their mother. Knowing the power of mothers’ disapproval, the US Postal Service had an ad for “Mother’s Day” that said “It’s not too late to win Mother’s approval.”

It’s particularly unfair when mothers use the political language of oppression to manipulate non-mothers into treating them with deference. Caring, responsible Dykes often believe someone who claims to be oppressed, especially if they are accused of not understanding, because “you don’t know what it’s like to be a mother.” That is as outrageous as the class-privileged saying that poor and working class Dykes have no right to talk about class privilege because we’ve never experienced it. Some Lesbian mothers may be angry at the privilege they lost when they became Lesbians, and expect non-mothers to make up for it. But men are responsible for their Lesbian oppression, not Lesbians.

 Some Mothers Betray Their Daughters and Other Females for Males

Considering the amount of nuclear and other toxins, as well as imperialist racist oppression that European-descent christian men have spread across the earth, European-descent gentile females have a specific responsibility to not create more males. No matter how many horror stories that the mainstream media reports about the destruction of the earth, they rarely say to stop breeding. Even environmentalists keep churning out the babies. Most of the world’s forests are cut down, most water is contaminated, and entire species of animals destroyed forever. It’s happening now. How can anyone but the most selfish (unless they are from a people endangered by genocide), keep reproducing?

For those who say it’s natural to reproduce, disease and parasites are also “natural.” The crazed obsession that men and het women have with fucking and making horrible over-populated replicas of themselves is not natural, but is a sign of humans being way out of control in nature. Animals, including people, do not overpopulate unless the natural balance is very disturbed, and no one has disturbed nature more than men.  No other animal has created such an artificial environment all over the earth. Very little in hetero-patriarchy is natural. They even buy and cover themselves in stinking toxic chemicals because they believe it makes them more appealing.

Het women’s obsession with reproduction is so extreme that some women get pregnant even when they know for certain that their child will inherit an excruciating, fatal disease. That’s “love”?

Wanting the attention mothers get motivates women who clearly should not be having babies. One of us was put in touch with a “Radical Feminist” new in town, who turned out to be a pregnant homeless woman who refused to get an abortion because she compared it to killing people. This woman knew about overpopulation and so made up a story about being “Indigenous,” saying she was Irish-descent, but a little later admitted that she was genetically English. She wanted help to find a dry doorway in the rain to sleep and ended up going back to a railway car to join the homeless man who had gotten her pregnant. It never seemed to occur to her that any baby she had would be in danger and have a hellish life. It was all about her.

In order to keep their het and mother privilege, some het mothers selfishly collude in the rape of their daughters. There’s an excellent film about Canadian Shirley Turcotte’s journey to talk with her family about her father orally and vaginally raping her and her sister from the ages of five. Shirley’s sister said, “I was five when I first tasted his semen….dad went all the way with me when I was five. I remember that and mom came home and I was bleeding down there…. I keep wondering, well, why didn’t she take me to a doctor and get me checked up. Why?”  When she was in her teens, she became pregnant. “I tried to tell a priest that it was my dads’ baby…. The priest said, ‘No, no that’s not right. Don’t accuse your dad, you’re supposed to respect him: Honor thy father, honor thy mother.’” Shirley’s mother said about their father, “He could be very loving.” Shirley asked, “He was loving? When did he change?” Her mother answered, “ When you were babies. He didn’t like the crying.”8

Katinka, a Swedish Dyke Separatist said that in the Swedish Women’s Bulletin, a socialist-feminist mother said, “If we want men to share in taking care of girls, we can’t go around accusing them of incest.” She heard another mother say that her greatest fear about her daughter being raped is that it might cause her to become a Lesbian.

                             “Lesbians” Getting Pregnant???

How would you like to live in a world of 85% men?  (That’s what A.I. usually produces because the XX sperm are heavier, with more genetic material.)

Het baby booms often follow right wing reactionary trends. Political pressure is put on women to return to or stay in traditional male-defined feminine roles and accept male supremacy. “The lower the status of females in a culture, the higher the birthrate; the higher the status of females, the lower the birthrate.”Women who call themselves “Lesbians” started getting pregnant in the early Eighties.

Patriarchy and nationalism are intertwined, and motherhood is a key part of both. Right wing national trends were partly a reaction to the growing Lesbian and feminist movements, just as they were in 1930’s Nazi Germany. In an effort to destroy the growing German Feminist and Lesbian movements, the Nazis proclaimed women’s role to be “Kinder, Kirche, Küche” – “children, church and kitchen.” (US nationalism is epitomized by “mom, the flag, and apple pie.”) This pressure to reproduce was directed at so-called “Aryan” women, while Jewish, Roma/Gypsy, Slavic, and disabled females were killed or sterilized by the Nazis. In the US, females oppressed by racism and classism have been victims of enforced sterilization. Harry Laughlin, the “father” of US eugenics inspired the Nazis and they awarded him honorary degrees. (Bev: My poverty class aunt was sterilized against her will at sixteen by the US government, for being a “criminal.”)

As gentile Lesbians of primarily European descent, we recognize that Lesbians whose cultures have suffered genocide are under different pressures to get pregnant than more privileged Lesbians. But still, those who do choose pregnancy are oppressing all Lesbian non-mothers, particularly those who never got heterosexual privilege.

Like Lesbianism, resistance to motherhood exists in all cultures and is a powerful threat to patriarchy. This revolutionary resistance has been carried out in isolation and in small groups everywhere, in spite of punishment, including death. It’s sometimes been done with full awareness of its political female-loving significance, and sometimes out of intuitive self-love, in spite of feeling guilty for disobeying. In every case, it represents saying no to men and male rule. It is the stubborn survival of Lesbians’ love for ourselves and each other, against all odds.

This beautiful Lesbian determination deserves recognition, support, and respect from all Lesbians. Understanding the significance means understanding that Lesbian self-love and self-respect is the opposite of the male-defined femininity of wifehood and motherhood. The revolutionary quality of this resistance is often not noticed or appreciated because actions that do not benefit men and their het women agents are not honored. We need to recognize that men hate Lesbians not only because we say no to them and dare to love our own kind, but because we refuse to breed and make more men and more het women to produce men.

Many Lesbians had children when they were het, and some didn’t want to be mothers. Some women were raped and were not able to have abortions. A few women have given up their children. Some of the Lesbian mothers who gave up sons clearly did it to protect our Lesbian culture. (Ruston: I recall that almost every politically active Lesbian mother I met in Women’s Liberation and the Lesbian community in Aotearoa in the 1970’s had left her children, particularly sons.) In patriarchy, where women are considered to be of little value except as wives and mothers, this is a courageous act. Some Lesbians who gave up their children have been abused by both the het world and het-identified Lesbians. There are also Lesbian mothers who haven’t tried to bully non-mothers into taking care of their children and have done their best to reject mother privilege.

Many Lesbians’ reasons for getting pregnant mirror het women’s — it’s trendy and “everyone is doing it” – which are the same reasons for going het and marrying men. It’s a selfish, personal attempt to feel less powerless, as opposed to a political solution that might actually give us real power in our lives. Men are destroying the earth, raping and killing girls and women, while het women continue fucking and making more men. Then “Lesbians” in Lesbian communities started following. Very soon, the Lesbian media was making “Lesbian” pregnancy look fun and attractive. A Lesbian cartoonist even showed a “Lesbian” couple’s baby boy pissing on Lesbians as cute. (This same lauded cartoonist who was printed in many publications and published cartoon books over years, also drew semen dripping from a condom, but never once drew a Butch.)

Some of the Lesbian pro-pregnancy propaganda portray it as if it’s courageous, creative and revolutionary, but, like het motherhood, it’s the same boring, confining, reactionary, traditional, and right wing role for women, like all aspects of heterosexuality.

Motherhood has never caused great change and instead keeps women “in their place.” Yet non-mothers are pressured to feel guilty by their families and patriarchy. When Ellen DeGeneres first came out, she was asked if she was going to have babies and she said, “No, I’m too selfish.” What on earth is selfless about reproducing?  It’s the ultimate patriarchal mind-fuck. One Lesbian we know said apologetically that her reasons for not getting pregnant were “just personal, not political” since she hadn’t realized her own courage and the political nature of her resistance. Even popular het women stars are pressured relentlessly in the media to reproduce.

And then there is breeding as proof of a happy relationship, just like with het women. We heard a Lesbian actually say about her ex-lover, “I loved her so much and was so committed to her that we were going to have children, though I hate children.”

Lesbians aren’t voluntarily sexual in any way with men. The acts of welcoming semen into one’s body, being pregnant, giving birth, and breastfeeding are specifically heterosexual acts. Women who choose pregnancy are simply not Lesbians. They may yet become Lesbians or they may have been Lesbians in the past, but they’re not Lesbians while participating in the most heterosexual of acts. If they’re being sexual with Lesbians, then they’re bisexual. This isn’t a question of semantics, but of Lesbian survival.

Women who inject semen into themselves are subjecting their Lesbian lovers to the same dangers that other bisexuals subject Lesbians to, such as STDs, including AIDS.10 Lesbians are the least likely people to get AIDS from sexual contact, but “artificial insemination” does cause a risk and some “Lesbians” have been infected. Because many of these women used semen from Gay men, they’re likely to have a higher than usual rate of AIDS. The Lyme disease spirochete, Borrelia Burgdorferi, has also been found in semen, and most Lyme is not diagnosed and is almost impossible to cure, so that means many men are carrying it. Semen itself is an immune depressant. Female bodies react to sperm as an invasion of foreign cells and send antibodies to kill them.11 There are other dangers as well. Sperm donors, including Gay men, have sued for “paternal rights” when they’ve found out that their sperm has impregnated women. Some have even become physically threatening out of possessive jealousy for “their” children. In most men’s minds, the bearer of “his” child is “his” woman.

Over 85% of A.I. babies are male.12 Women who become pregnant with male fetuses are doubly heterosexual. They live for nine months in more intimate contact with a male than het women experience when being fucked. They share blood, and the baby’s male hormones flow through the mother’s blood, affecting her mind and body. There is no act more heterosexual than creating men.13

Some mothers speak openly about their heterosexual bonds with their sons.  As one mother said, in a U.S. survey of how women feel about motherhood, “There is a romance between mother and son that doesn’t exist between mother and daughter. You can love your daughter, but you both love and are in love with your son.”14 In an interview, another mother said of her new son, “I don’t feel like I’m all alone any more. I have a significant other in my life.” Yet another mother said, “A mother wants a son to grow up early in life and be her advisor, escort, and extension of the men in her life. She wants her daughter to always be her little girl, not quite mature enough to make it without Mama’s help.”15

Some Lesbian mothers are also open about their het attitudes. In a poem to her son, one Lesbian mother said, “I see I am in love with you.”16 Another said to a Lesbian she considered hiring, “I want whoever does childcare for my boy to fall in love with him.” One “Lesbian” mother wrote about her sperm donor, “It took me six months to get pregnant. During that time Joe kept track of my cycle, would check to see if I got my period, and would write down in his calendar the days he was coming over to visit and jerk off. We had a corner for his favorite sex magazines. He used my pyrex cup as a receiving vessel. Even now I feel good every time I cook.”17 In an interview on a television news program, another said, “I looked for the right father for my child …. It was like falling in love with him … in a sense it was.” The “Lesbian” mother and sperm donor cuddled together for the television camera.18 Many pseudo-Lesbian mothers have surrogate fathers for their children. Patriarchy is father-rule, but you can’t have fathers or patriarchy without mothers.

Many Lesbians want to believe that women who choose to get pregnant are Lesbians if they say they are. (Many also desperately want to believe the bisexual and het women they love are Lesbians, but that doesn’t make it true.) Thousands of women are choosing to get pregnant, assuming that Lesbians will take care of them and their (majority) sons. As long as we accept these women as Lesbians, we’ll feel a responsibility towards them. Lesbians give them abundant physical and emotional care because they perceive them to be Lesbian mothers.

The role of mother is a heterosexual one. It takes tremendous work and commitment for a mother who becomes a Lesbian to stop identifying as a mother first and acting in a mother role. Even if she does stop, the privilege remains, although Lesbians can choose to not act out of that power and can try to have equal relationships with other Lesbians. For a Lesbian to choose to become a biological mother is to wholeheartedly embrace what motherhood means in patriarchy. Besides the pregnancy itself, the mother is now committed to devoting a major part of her life to nurturing and loving, in most cases, a male or future het woman. Her primary identity becomes that of Mother, as many have proudly said.

The het world has always exerted tremendous pressure on Dykes to become het, to accept fucking, femininity, pregnancy, and motherhood. Of course, hets want us to stop being Lesbians, to stop being a threat to patriarchy. Now het pressure is being exerted from within Lesbian communities as well as from outside. But Lesbians don’t choose to get pregnant any more than we choose to be fucked by men. Calling these women “Lesbians” contributes to defining Lesbians out of existence. Hets would love to believe that all Lesbians are really bisexuals or potential hets, and that Lesbians really need men to fuck them or at least provide sperm to make the babies that all females are supposed to want. That would prove that heterosexuality (submission to men) is the natural state of females. The “Lesbian” baby boom became widely known in the het world, as the headline “Lots of Lesbians Having Babies” announced in a San Francisco newspaper. The article even referred to the fact that some “Lesbians” get pregnant through fucking, not just A.I.19

How many thousands of Dykes feel betrayed by this het activity masquerading as Lesbianism? How many Dykes are finding themselves the only one in their community who objects to friends or lovers becoming pregnant and/or fucking with men, and are made to feel like perverted freaks as a result?

If patriarchy can’t kill us, get us to kill ourselves, lock us up, persuade us to hide who we are, or get us to become het or bisexual, then they try to define us out of existence. If anyone can call herself (or himself) a Lesbian, and if “Lesbians” fuck, have babies, and create and raise men, then what about those of us who are still real Dykes who love each other, love ourselves, and don’t want semen anywhere near us?

We’re saying that true Dykes are not disappearing, and we refuse to be divided and isolated from each other. No matter how men and their women collaborators try to dilute our Lesbian identities and politics, some of us remain Dykes and are working toward truly Dyke-identified communities.

It can be very hard for Lesbians who are alone in being against the “Lesbian” fad of getting pregnant. Often the mothers-to-be and new mothers are surrounded by Lesbians who dote on them, satisfying their every whim. Anyone who dares to question the situation is likely to be insulted and ostracized. We want Dykes in that situation to know that they have support. The following list has been helpful for those who are dealing with a lover or friend who wants to get pregnant.

                         Are You Considering Having a Baby?

Well, your decision affects all of us, and there are some things we’d like to say about it.

Becoming a Mother Does NOT Mean …

  1. … that you are a loving, unselfish individual.
  2. … that you are politically courageous.
  3. … that you will become more oppressed than Lesbian non-mothers.
  4. … that if you have a daughter she will become a Lesbian.
  5. … that if you have a son he will be the exceptional non-sexist male (the messianic mother complex).
  6. … that you aren’t bringing another rapist into the world.
  7. … that you’ll be able to relive your life through your children.
  8. … that you have a right to expect or demand that Lesbians take care of you and your children.
  9. … that you have a right to inflict another male on our Lesbian communities.
    10  … that you have a right to inflict another male on our world.

 But Becoming a Mother DOES Mean …

  1. … that you are treated with more respect and privilege in the world.
  2. … that you are treated with more respect and privilege among Lesbians.
  3. … that this increased privilege is at the expense of Lesbian non-mothers.
  4. … that your privilege is greater if you have a son.
  5. … that you’re fulfilling the male-defined role of femininity and Motherhood.
  6. … that you’re doing what you’ve been ordered to do since you were born. … that you’re participating in a reactionary choice to join the het baby boom which is part of a right-wing backlash against Lesbians.
  7. … that you’re sentencing yourself to at least an 18-year commitment.
  8. … that you have less time and energy to take care of yourself and other Lesbians.
  9. … that you have a primary commitment to your children that will take precedence over close Lesbian friends or lovers
  10. … that you’re contributing to more hardship in all of our lives because your babies will be our future competition for housing, jobs, resources, and possibly food and water.
  11. … that you will replay some of the same destructive roles you experienced with your family.
  12. … that you’ll be caught up in the circular trap of dependent and caretaker
  13. … that it’s likely your children will later hate you because they didn’t grow up with all the privileges of a normal nuclear family.
  14. … that they’re likely to hate you just because of the power you have over them as a mother, whether you wanted that power or not.
  15. … that you will be vulnerable to being institutionalized by them when they grow up.
  16. … that you’re most likely creating more heterosexuals.
  17. … that you’re burdening an already overpopulated world.
  18. that no matter what you do, if you have a boy, he will likely terrorize and assault girls and, later, adult women and Lesbians, and likely will be a rapist.
  19. … that if you have a son and a daughter, it will not be unusual for your son to sexually assault your daughter.
  20. … that it won’t be a rare if you are assaulted by your son when he gets old enough.
  21. … that you’re no longer a Lesbian because playing with semen, being pregnant, and giving birth are heterosexual acts.
  22. … that you risk getting AIDS and other STDs and passing them on to Lesbians.
  23. .… that you’re weakening and permanently altering your body, and shortening your life span, making it more possible to bleed to death, develop high blood pressure, have a stroke or heart attack, or develop diabetes, kidney disease, or cancer.20 (The dangers of pregnancy and childbirth are a well-kept secret.)

                                      Boys Oppress All Females

Het mothers are notorious for worshipping their sons. “I was in awe that I could produce a male human.” When I look at my daughter, I see myself. When I look at my son, I see my son.” I think I will be more a friend to my daughter and be respectful to my son.” “It’s a new world seen through your son’s eyes, and for some reason we let them get by with doing things that we’d never let a girl do.”21

In an anthology, one mother whose adult son was living with her described picking up his shit-filled underwear and smelling it, saying how in love with him she is. With this level of adoration, if such a son raped her daughter or other girls or women, who would she protect?

Considering the amount of energy already poured into men and boys in this male-run world, why would any Lesbian want to give them more, let alone make more of them? The sons of mothers that already exist are enough of a threat to all girls and women.

Boys are voyeuristic and prurient towards girls and women from an early age. Too many mothers make their sons’ right to run around naked take precedence over girls’ and women’s rights to not have to see them, like when mothers bring sons into changing rooms where girls and women are subjected to seeing their erections. Like when adult men are naked, this is a threat of rape. Some mothers even allow their sons to masturbate in front of Lesbians.

Lesbians are sometimes concerned about the power they have as adults over boys, forgetting that boys have power given to them by adult males. In some countries, boys have power over all females, including their mothers. Many Lesbians have internalized the het women’s role to protect all males, even at other females’ and their own expense. When Lesbians have to defend ourselves from attacks by boys, we are vulnerable to reprisals from authorities as well as from Lesbians. Thinking of boys as kids or children denies the fact that boys have the power to threaten girls and anyone else they can physically intimidate. Boys also often have less concern about the consequences of their violence than men do, since they are almost impossible to prosecute for raping, torturing, or even killing, and they know it. They have the law and their families, including their mothers, to protect them.

When feminists proudly proclaim that anyone who bothers their “kids” will have to deal with them, do they include girls or women defending themselves?  One feminist proclaimed on her facebook masthead that “there is no greater warrior than a mother protecting her child” and elsewhere on her page wrote, “You mess with my kids and you mess with their crazy ass Mom…. be warned.”

Teenaged boys are more violent than any other age group of males, and boys in gangs are even more sadistic, which is why some dictatorships prefer having boys as young as twelve recruited into their armies.

Lesbians’ sons have attacked and raped girls, including their sisters and other Lesbians’ daughters. Many adult, able-bodied women aren’t concerned about boys’ attacks on girls because they smugly assume they themselves are safe, but females of all ages have been attacked and killed by boys. Girls and disabled women are more vulnerable to injury, but all females are targeted by males. And being able-bodied is a temporary condition. Sons also assault their mothers and it’s not rare for a boy to rape, beat, or kill his mother or other older female relatives. Some boys kill their entire families. Boys are increasingly becoming mass murderers.

Why do so few Lesbians remember their fear and hatred of boys who attacked and sexually harassed them when they were girls?

It’s dangerous to believe you can raise gentle, non-dangerous males. Socialization is not the problem since male violence extends across species. From an early age, boys exhibit a sadism, cruelty, and violence that is extremely different from girls’ behavior. (Girls who do attack others are often joining with boys.) Some boys may be considered well-behaved if compared to more violent boys, but even the gentlest boys show a viciousness when compared to girls. We always say, you never know what males are doing when alone with babies or animals. Yet this violence is considered the norm: “Boys will be boys.” Contrary to myth, serial rapists and killers are not “sick.” They measure on psychological testing as normal males. And girls and women are most likely to be attacked by males that they are close to, including relatives. Woman who think they can control the danger of their boys and men are deluding themselves, and the rest of us pay the cost.

It’s not mothers’ fault that their sons are rapists and murderers. But it is their responsibility to be aware that they might be. All mothers think that their sons will be the exceptional males, but Lesbians’ sons have inside information about our culture and communities, and no matter how catered to and shown that they matter more than any girl, woman, or Lesbian — because of that worshipping — many boys will be resentful that they didn’t get even more privilege or grow up in a “normal” het nuclear family. Some of them, like pornographer Tobi Hill-Meyer, was even brought to the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival as a boy. Now, he damages our community by claiming to be a Lesbian and Butch (though he’s typically male-identified feminine), getting into power positions as so many men who claim they are Lesbians do, such as being on the board of Butch Voices, controlling and censoring our community. And this man who is actually accepted as a Lesbian, has posted photos and videos of his erect prick online.

Every boy and man who has beaten, raped, and killed a girl or woman has had at least one woman (if not many) in his life who loved, protected, and nurtured him, and who tried her best to keep him from being a brutal, dangerous attacker. It isn’t these women’s fault if the boys they loved are rapists and killers, but they do share responsibility if they continue supporting them. Choosing to nurture our attackers means becoming their collaborators. The mother who insists her son is an exception is inflicting her self-righteousness on every female he will attack in his life. She has no right to bring another oppressor into our world, and even less right to bring him into a Lesbian community and demand that we be forced to be around him or look after him.

Even Lesbian Feminists delude themselves. Some years ago, we went to a Lesbian Feminist event in another city that included a short film by a Lesbian that was supposed to be cute, but which was actually showing one Lesbian’s son assaulting another Lesbian’s daughter. They looked to be about eight years old. The girl was dressed only in a full body leotard, while the boy had on trousers, jacket, and cap. When the girl tried to talk, the boy put his hand over the girl’s mouth, punched her, and shoved her out of the view of the camera, which kept its focus on him. He picked up the girl, and when she yelled to be put down, he dropped her. He told her to climb on his back, and then he threw her down on her head. While still lying on the ground, he shoved his face into her crotch and wouldn’t stop, even though she kept yelling “Stop it!”  That was the end of the film. The girl looked increasingly embarrassed and humiliated in the film. It was excruciating to watch, but the audience of about a hundred Lesbians applauded and had laughed throughout, even though what they were lauding was obviously a sexual assault. We were horrified. If this is what a Lesbian’s son does in front of a camera, what does he do with no witnesses? Would the audience have been applauding if the film showed two adults instead?  Clearly, this was a boy much loved and accepted in that community, and would be able to get away with almost anything. Why did the girl not matter at all?

When we talked with Lesbians afterward, they were patronizing: “It’s just kids playing.” “That’s how they learn their roles.” (!!!) “It’s a heterosexual phase all kids go though.” (The “heterosexual phase” didn’t include the girl who did not agree to any of it. And those of us who didn’t like boys sexually assaulting us when we were girls must then be freaks or don’t exist.) We were told we were over-reacting and asked if we’d ever “worked with kids.” So we had to be experts to earn the right to object to girls being assaulted? The fact that we have clear memories of being attacked and injured by boys when we were little didn’t count. We even asked, “But don’t you remember what it was like for you as a girl?” and one of the Lesbians said she’d “learned to roll with the punches” from her bother and that it was “fun.”

The girl was objectified as not possibly feeling the way a woman would in the situation. Calling both the girl and boy “kids” removed the girl from recognition or sympathy she would have gotten as a woman. The boy was also identified as being different from adult men and therefore less dangerous and oppressive, though boys his age do rape and kill. Many of those Lesbians had to have been sexually assaulted as girls, yet they identified with the boy, betraying themselves, the girl, and all of us who are female.

What we learned is that Lesbians who love and protect boys can’t be trusted to care about how dangerous those boys are. Their loyalty is to boys first, just as most het women’s loyalty is. We’ve seen too many instances of Lesbians’ daughters and girls treated with harshness and contempt, while sons are fussed over with a respect that borders on reverence.

Het women are even more likely to delude themselves about their “wonderful” boys. It’s become trendy among the most class-privileged young Euro-descent women to convince everyone how sensitive and gentle their sons are. We met a woman like this who had a five year old boy. As she told us how he loved plants, the little prick was systematically beating her flowers with a stick, shredding the plants to death. She said tenderly, “No don’t do that, dear. You know you love flowers.” He continued killing the plants.

This “progressive” kind of motherly discipline of the past thirty years has produced an even more dangerous male. The mother gives her son the sense that the world revolves around him, and that he is allowed to do whatever he wants. She’s certainly never said no to mother’s little darling or let him know what pain feels like when she’s found him torturing, raping, and killing animals or beating and sexually assaulting girls.

How many girls will be beaten and raped, and adult Lesbians oppressed, before all Lesbians realize that boys raised by Lesbians are no less a threat than other boys?

Boys who rape their sisters and other girls are usually still accepted and loved. If there’s blame, it’s usually put on the girls, no matter her age, who’s accused of “asking for it” – even if she’s too young to walk or talk.

Because girls are growing up in Lesbian communities of 85% boys, the rate of rape and violence to girls has to be much higher. How can Lesbians as individuals and communities tolerate this.

Motherhood Oppresses Girls, but Heterosexual Girls Oppress Lesbians                  

A Lesbian baiting us about being against “Lesbian” pregnancy asked, “Well, where do you think little Lesbians come from?”  The reality is that most Lesbians come from the same place that we always came from: het nuclear families. Whether we are Lesbians or not is simply a choice. Some Lesbians talk about making little Amazons of the future, but no one can make a girl a Lesbian. It’s what we believe all girls would naturally choose if it wasn’t for the rewards or punishments given in patriarchy, but legally owning someone can’t force that decision.

Most daughters of Lesbians choose to be het for the privilege.

Patriarchy puts unrelenting pressure on girls to fit in and be “normal.” It can be horrible to devote twenty years of your life to a girl and then she decides to be fucked by men and be Lesbian-hating. The rewards for selling out are similar to why many Lesbians return to men. Most of the daughters of Lesbians we’ve known chose men. One of these girls would hang around with her men in public places and taunt Lesbians by name (patronizingly patting them on the head), who she knew from growing up in a Lesbian community, to humiliate them for the benefit of her men. The Lesbians who loved and raised this girl went through hell and risked imprisonment to get her away from her abusive father and to give her the best life possible.

We have a friend who almost lost her teaching job because a Lesbian-hating girl circulated a petition saying that our friend had sexually harassed her female students. The girl first got other girls to sign a completely different petition and then attached their names to her lie. When confronted, she admitted it was a lie and said she’d done it so our friend would lose her job. Het girls can be cruel and oppressive to Dykes of all ages, but Dyke girls are even more vulnerable to their Dyke-hating.

If Lesbians are really concerned about girls, why not try to help girls who are already Lesbians who are living on the streets or in shelters?  Many have been disowned by their families or run away from abusive families.

                   Fighting Mother Privilege is Dyke-Loving

If motherhood improved the world, the world would be in a much better state since it’s filled with mothers. Having a baby won’t enable you to relive your life and it won’t cause you to be a better person. It will likely do the opposite since it will give you the power to raise another person as property, to hit and punish and humiliate. And that kind of power corrupts. It’s bad enough that we are all taught to accept inequality and injustice as normal, because of the hierarchical families and cultures we grown up in. It’s hard enough to fight inequalities among Lesbians without choosing such an extremely unequal role. One mother said, ”I used to think a lot about how I would glow when I was pregnant, about how important I would feel to produce a baby that came from my own body. I imagined I would feel like a Madonna, holding a complacent infant in my arms. I loved the idea of having a baby completely dependent on me. That babies grow up never crossed my mind.”

The patriarchal system of family ownership can also be dangerous to mothers. Lesbians are already vulnerable to being institutionalized by Lesbian-hating family, but Lesbian mothers are also vulnerable to being declared incompetent and locked up by adult children and even grandchildren. Mothers legally have power over minors, but as they age, the power shifts to their adult children.

Many Lesbians who support het values do so out of passivity. Since mothers believe we owe them care, attention, money, energy, sympathy, admiration, respect, and even obedience, and then feel justified in demanding that and more. If we don’t refuse those het values, we’re likely to respond out of guilt for not being mothers ourselves, and perhaps with eagerness to prove we’re not too unnatural to have “motherly instincts.” By contrast, Dykes with little or no past het privilege are taught to expect abuse rather than respect. So it’s harder for us to expect help, much less demand it when we really need it, and other Lesbians are less inclined to organize help if we do ask.

We should never be accused of being woman-hating if we refuse to be mothers or refuse to help mothers. Motherhood bleeds our communities dry. Lesbians who choose not to be mothers should never have to pay economically, politically, or emotionally for other women’s choice to reproduce.

                                                  Endnotes

We highly recommend IceMountainFire’s blog and post on motherhood:
http://icemountainfire.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/motherhood/

  1. Amazones d’Hier, Lesbiennes d”Aujourd’hui (Amazons Yesterday, Lesbians Today) a wonderful Lesbian-only journal from Montréal, Québec, Canada, devoted an entire issue to the politics of motherhood (#20, “Motherhood Reviews and Rejected,” edited by Francine Mayer, June, 1988.) Dykes from several countries were printed and we especially recommend the articles by Katinka from Sweden, Marian Lens from Belgium, Hilary and Ruston from Aotearoa, and Francine from Quebec. This chapter is a revised version of an article that we (Linda and Bev) had printed in that issue, called, “Lesbians Choosing Pregnancy?” We greatly appreciate the courage of the AHLA Lesbians in printing these articles. Hilary’s and Ruston’s article was first printed in Circle, a Lesbian Feminist journal for women only, in Whanganui-a-Tara, 1983. As far as we know, these were the first articles that refuted Lesbian mothers’ claim of being oppressed by non-mother Dykes.2. Lewis Genebie and Eva Margolis, The Motherhood Report: How Women Feel About Being Mothers (New York, Macmillan Publishing Co., 1987). P. 422.
    3. San Francisco Chronicle, 16 Feb 1988.4. The Motherhood Report, p.102.

    5. Savvy, Feb 1988, p. 99.

    6. “Miscarriages,” Newsweek, 15 Aug, 1988, p. 49.

    7. Cheryl Jones, Motherlines,” Coming Up, Sept 1986.

    8. To a Safer Place, Frontline #609, originally broadcast on PBS television stations Sept 12, 1988. WGBH Transcripts,125 Western Ave., Boston, MA 12134.

    9. From an interview with Isaac Asimov on Bill Moyers’ “World of Ideas,” KTEH-TV, San Jose, California, 18 Oct. 1988.

    10. From Hag Rag, Vol. 3, #3, Nov-Dec 9988, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. “In a survey of 388 doctors who do four or more artificial inseminations per year, The Congressional Office of Technology Assessment found that only 44 percent of the doctors checked semen specimens for HIV, 28% checked for syphilis, 27% for gonorrhea, 26% for hepatitis, and 6% for herpes.”

    11. Jacqueline Steincamp, Overload: Beating M.E. (Whatamongo Bay, Queen Charlotte Sound, New Zealand, Cape Catley Ltd, 1988, 154. “Semen itself is an immune suppressant and every new…encounter leads to an exchange of foreign antigens and possibly damaged immune complexes.

    12. Julia Penelope, “The Mystery of Lesbians II,” Gossip #2, p. 35.

    13. As Susan Cavin said in Lesbian Origins, Ism Press Inc. 54: “I suggest that the first enduring heterosexual relation is the mother-son relation.”

    14. As Cheryl Jones said about being pregnant, “I felt the same as other women in a way I hadn’t since coming out at 17. I knew more about what the majority of women in the world were doing.” Motherlines, “Coming Up,” Sept. 1986.

    15. The Motherhood Report, 288.

    16. Sue Silvermarie, “Seven Years Satisfied,” We Are Everywhere, Writings By and About Lesbian Parents, edited by Harriet Alpert, (Freedom, California: The Crossing Press, 1988), p.103.

    17. Lee Swislow, “J.J.”, Ibid, 198.

    18. NBC-TV new, 9 March 1987.

    19.  San Francisco Chronicle, 30 Jan.1989, A9.

    20. V. Beral, “Longterm Effects of Childbearing on Health,” Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health. Vol.39, 1985, 343.

    21. The Motherhood Report, 300.

 

 

About Bev Jo

I’ve been a Lesbian from my earliest memories and am proud to be a Lesbian. Lesbians are my people and my blood. My life’s work has defending Lesbians and our culture and existence against those who oppress us. Working-class, ex-catholic, mostly European-descent (with some First Nations, probably Shawnee, ancestry), from poverty class culture. I’m a Lifelong Lesbian, born near Cincinnati, Ohio in 1950. I became lovers with my first lover in 1968, became part of a Lesbian community in 1970, and became a Dyke Separatist in 1972. I helped create Radical Lesbian Feminist and Separatist community and worked on some of the earliest Lesbian Feminist projects, such as the Lesbian Feminist Conference in Berkeley in 1972, the newspaper “Dykes and Gorgons” in 1973, the women’s bookstore, Lesbian coffeehouse, and taught self defense to women and girls. I’ve been published in journals and anthologies, including “For Lesbians Only,” “Finding the Lesbians,” “Lesbian Friendships,” “Amazones d’Hier, Lesbiennes Aujourd’hui,” “Mehr als das Herz Gebrochen,” the Journal for Lesbian Studies, Lesbian Ethics, Sinister Wisdom, Trivia, and Rain and Thunder. With Linda Strega and Ruston, I co-wrote our book, “Dykes-Loving-Dykes: Dyke Separatist Politics for Lesbians Only” in 1990. I’ve been disabled since 1981 with ME/CFIDS (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis) and MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.) I love nature and plants and animals — and especially the animals who are feared and hated and killed by people who don’t even know them, just as Lesbians are. I’ve learned to love rats especially, who I do not consider inferior to humans. I’m a spiritual atheist, but I’ve found out that there is definitely life after death because a little rat returned from the dead for three days to comfort us. These hated little animals are so kind and loving, and willing to die for someone they love. I say, in our fight to protect the earth — distrust all “truths” we are taught by patriarchy. The true truth is often the opposite.
This entry was posted in Additional Radical Lesbian Feminist writings and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

46 Responses to Chapter Seven: Motherhood: The Ultimate Feminine Role

  1. Thank you for this wonderful piece! There are so many things I just love in this: You describe perfectly why women want to be mothers. Being in the age bracket of my friends becoming mothers, you are so right! I see that women crave privilege, but you really get into detail and are so insightful! Isn’t it ironic that it needs Lesbians to uncover the motivations of mothers so brilliantly, and still get told to shut up as long as we are not mothers ourselves?

    So many things you describe are downright sickening… the woman who had the gall to announce you for ″diaper duty″. Should that be funny? Is that in any way an acceptable statement? It is incredibly rude, no matter to whom it was said. I can’t see myself talk like that to a relative or a close friend I know for decades – but it is completely unthinkable to say that to a Lesbian woman. (That being said, when one of my friends recently had a baby, her prick mentioned right in the first picture/″We have a baby!” mass email that visitors may gladly help with the diaper-changing. Parents don’t seem to like that part of parenting.)

    And the pyrex cup thing (WTF? Besides, a teaspoon should suffice), the disgusting things women say about their sons and that film. I was forced into a scout group consisting only of me and seven teenage boys (we don’t seperate scout groups by sex like in the US). The description of that short film gave me a physical stress reaction, heart race, sweaty palms and all. Have all these women forgotten how they were mistreated as girls?

    Sorry for this wall of text, but your chapter is just so brilliant and though-provoking and I’m learning so much from you. Thank you again!

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Oh, and a PS I forgot. Recently I was given a biography of this man to read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amon_Goeth
    He must be one of the worst men who ever lived. And guess what? He had loving, doting parents plus an unmarried aunt who did nothing but coddle and spoil little “Mony” (his actual childhood nickname). Men are scum, no matter how much love women throw at them.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Bev Jo says:

    Thank you for commenting and never apologize for how much you write!!! I love every line!

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Choco says:

    Thank you so much for this brilliant article! You’re absolutely right that women who reject motherhood are accused of being “woman hating” and even “just like oppressive men.” So women who live their lives free of men and child bearing are less of a woman than women who center men in their physical and spiritual lives? I once commented that I’m sick of hearing white mothers talking about how difficult their lives are since as a Jewish woman I’ve seen Jewish motherhood degraded by white supremacy (i.e Jewish women aren’t “real” women and Jewish mothers are both frigid and sexually deviant. Also that Jewish mothers emasculate their sons and teach their daughters to be gold digging whores.) I was told by both white and nonwhite women that I was a racist woman hater, and was subjected to very male identified insults like “shove that up your ass, sideways,” and “fuck off.” And this was on a feminist website, and no one had a problem with it.

    I also find that a lot of mothers hold a very deep jealousy towards women who don’t have children, especially if the woman refuses to dumb herself down for men and goes off to college or travels or creates art. I’ve been told multiple times that I can’t be as smart as I think I am (I have my Master’s degree) and that all of my accomplishments are the result of “sucking someone’s dick” (or using my “Jew privilege”) b/c they can’t imagine a woman living only for herself. That’s why you see so many articles of women pontificating that motherhood is their most fulfilling job. They have to convince themselves that foregoing college and developing themselves as an autonomous human being was the right choice, and that all those poor childfree women will never know true love. Why is the love that I hold for my pets, my friends, or nature somehow less than? They spend hours assuring everyone they made the right choice, and become almost psychotic in their constant questioning: “You’re going to have a baby, right? Everyone has one, right? It’s normal!”

    I’m not going to dumb myself down because it makes some women uncomfortable, and I’m so thankful for the all the brilliant and vibrant women who say no to being male identified!

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Bev Jo says:

    Thank you so much, Choco! The Jewish women-hating you describe is horrific. I’m still in shock about something I saw on a women’s page recently that sounded like classic Nazi-talk. That was not a real feminist but I can’t believe anyone would be so stupid or so oppressive. That site you describe is fake feminist to allow such racist female-hating comments. I know patriarchy loves scapegoats but I wonder too if hatred aimed at Jewish women and mothers is jealousy that that is one group of women who have managed to be thinkers and writers way out of proportion to their numbers, compared to other women and especially among feminists. Where would feminism be without the Jewish women who did so much to create our movement?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Choco says:

      Thanks Bev Jo! The really distressing thing about that thread is that it was filled with commenters I’ve seen on Gendertrender. I guess because I said “special breeder privilege” that makes me “just like a male rape apologist.” Mar Iguana was the one who said the things I listed above, and when I said I was surprised since I thought she was a feminist, she said “If you can’t take hearing misogyny then you shouldn’t dish it out.” And apparently her being a WOC gives her a pass on antisemitism, thanks intersectionality! Everyone’s a radical feminist….until someone questions their precious mommyhood or nice husband.

      Thank you so much for acknowledging the contributions that Jewish women have made in feminism. There’s so much hostility directed towards Jewish women by women who claim to be feminists. They grow up in Christian dominated countries but accuse Jews of starting the patriarchy. I can’t keep track of how many online feminists I’ve had to unfollow since they believe in one of these narratives: 1. Jewish women are ultraconservative and too oppressed to see what’s happening to them, and they are deliberately upholding the patriarchal status quo. 2. Jewish women are liberal elite academics who are too privileged to see the way feminism operates for minority women. The only way they earned their education was with daddy’s money or being sexually available to the right men.

      I think I just have to come out and say it….motherhood has a very stupefying affect on women. Women are encouraged to give up every part of themselves when they have children, and by the time they realize they want to have something for themselves, it’s too late and they’re aren’t enough hours in the day. They have to be content with a “girl’s night out” once a month. I think most childfree women recognize this: a friend they had in college who dreamed of accomplishing so much gets married and had a kid by 30 and doesn’t want to talk about anything else.

      And icemountainfire, I’m so sorry you had a panic attack! That film was really sickening, and I bet at the end that poor little girl was told the reason for her suffering was that “he was just being a boy” or “that’s his way of saying he likes you.” I find it so horrifying that mothers worship their sons so much, and see their daughters as just dolls to dress up or even some strange form of competition. It’s been proven that mothers breastfeed and hold their daughters less than their sons, not to mention the commonality of abandoning baby girls and selling them into prostitution and child marriages. Motherhood has a negative affect on feminist consciousness too-how many women start out opposing porn and prostitution because of female oppression, only to have a son and worry about how porn will give him “penis anxiety” or that some slut will accuse him of rape in college?

      Liked by 1 person

      • Lizzy Shaw says:

        I have also seen some blogs that at first seem like they have some good points but then I run into bizarre anti-Semitic behavior. In one blog I saw, a woman was randomly accusing celebrities she didn’t like of being “Zionist scum”…and most of them weren’t even Jewish.

        Antisemitism is not radical or feminist in any way! I have also noticed those stereotypes about Jewish women who are mothers. I definitely avoid people who are being antisemitic and claiming it’s radical feminism.

        I also think what you said with the “are you having a baby” question is true! I often get that even from women who don’t have children. They have decided that baby=happy but deep down they know it’s not true and so they flip out on anyone who doesn’t agree.

        I have also noticed the subtle jealousy. Many of my cousins who had kids in their teens or early twenties were jealous when I graduated from school and that I am now in a master’s program. Some have pestered me about having kids but it currently seems half-hearted. (Plus, most of them are bad parents anyway.)

        Like

        • Bev Jo says:

          It’s been a shock to see the anti-Semitism online. Besides it making the bigot look stupid, it’s just so….stupid. I was fb friends with a woman who seemed to think she might be too radical for our Radical Feminist groups (she wasn’t close to radical), but I would get her posts in my newsfeed, often about archeological information on ancient sites, and then one day, she and her friends started writing the most bizarre anti-Jewish rants, like they believed the mythical Protocols of the Elders of Zion. And these were Eastern Europeans, which horrifies me more because of the history of pogroms and also since some of the Nazis in those countries happily joined the SS when the Germans invaded (well, a lot did in France and western Europe too.) Yet some of those Slavic people were also on Hitler’s killing list.

          Anyway, no anti-Semitism is allowed in our groups, like no other forms of racism.

          It’s interesting how the same people who complain about having babies making their lives hard want all women do do the same. And yes, then horrifying to see how they treat their kids. The reproduction policing is amazing. If anyone starts with me, I reminde them that reproducing is literally destroying the earth.

          Like

          • Lizzy Shaw says:

            Yes, this antisemitism is disturbing, especially when it comes from so-called radicals. I do have to wonder how many are trolls or government agents. It could be that some of them are out for attention and online fame too. I had to look up the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It’s so obviously a hoax but it seems like a lot of people believe in conspiracy theories about Jewish people wanting to take over the world.

            I will continue to be baffled when I see antisemitism from people who would have never qualified as part of Hilter’s so-called “master race” and were on his death list. Talk about ignoring history. Then again, there’s always a lot of ignoring and re-writing history going on.

            Anyway, glad you monitor the racism and Antisemitism and nip it in the bud. Apparently a lot of feminist sites don’t do that. I don’t blame women who are interested in feminism for being put off by that, or the trans cult worship, or the male worship in general.

            I agree, it is interesting. I think that they probably just want another person to suffer with them. I used to get hate for just saying I didn’t want kids. There was no politics, just I was repulsed by the idea of being pregnant. Now I like to point out that reproducing is destroying the Earth too. It’s interesting how people, especially men think that my individual decision not to reproduce and me encouraging others not to reproduce will destroy the Earth and cause the human race to go extinct when the opposite is true. The reason the human population keeps going up is because we keep finding ways to artificially increase our carrying capacity but one day out luck will run out and there will be a big crash. We do have the intelligence to see it coming and prevent it, but patriarchy works best when women are baby factories.

            I just cannot understand parents who pressure their kids to reproduce. Thankfully my parents never have and they just want me to do well in school. Right now, my cousins aren’t pressuring their kids because their kids are age 7 and under but I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened soon. Most of them are just bad parents because they don’t treat their kids like people or have any structure for them. Not to mention those kids are all addicted to smart phones. And then there was my cousin who was feeding her daughter soda when she was two and saying, “but I cut it with water”. Why not just give her something healthy to drink then? Watery soda tastes nasty anyway.

            Oh well, I’ve prepared several spiels for anyone who gets on the reproductive policing. A good one is to point out that pregnancy resembles the movie “Alien” and especially the movie “Prometheus” along with pointing out the obvious overpopulation. I was watching a show from the mid-1990s on Netflix and one of the characters mentioned that the world had 5 billion people. That’s how screwed we are; we’ve added 2 billion people in less than the time I’ve been alive.

            Like

          • Bev Jo says:

            I’m sorry you’ve been subjected to the anti-Semitism. I’m still in shock at what I’ve seen, but not hurt like friends are. It is just evil.

            A major disagreement with most “radfems” is that they deny oppression and privilege among women. It’s no surprise that they are a particularly privileged group of women who go against basic feminism, as well as Radical Feminism. Some of the worst at least used to claim to be against the trans cult but are revealing themselves to not even be radical or feminist about that. I’ve said we need a separate movement from these pretend feminists, but too many still believe they are “sisters.” Every movement has collaborators.

            And then there are the government agents, as well as those trolling for fun and fame who are sociopaths.

            Yes, it’s guaranteed that if we say we think women should stop reproducing there’s a crazed response about the “human race” dying out. As if.

            I always think of Alien too! It’s the perfect analogy!

            Like

          • Lizzy Shaw says:

            Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that the antisemitism was directed at me! I’m not Jewish. I am just saying that I’ve seen it being passed off as radical feminism and it is disgusting. Many of the blogs I’ve seen it on are quite similar to each other so I suspect that there’s one person running multiple blogs in some cases. Either way, antisemitism is not feminist.

            I agree about some of the radfems. I understand wanting to point out that women are oppressed as a group because men, especially the trans cult, have tried and succeeded to steal the definition of women. But talking about inequalities among women does not mean that there is a such thing as “cis” women or that men who claim to be women are simultaneously just like real women and more oppressed than them. I’ve also seen radfems express disdain for the idea of intersectionality. However, what people need to keep in mind is that that idea was a discussion on how black women simultaneously experience racism and sexism, not the gutted version liberals use to say that men can become women.

            I do think radfems who say that discussion of racism, antisemitism, classism, and lesbian-hatred “shut down discussions” are in a relatively good place in life and just don’t care. (And there is always the phenomena of het “feminists” who like to constantly point out that they are not like those “ugly, man-hating lesbians.” Funnily enough, many of them will become very anti-male when there are not any men/boys present.)

            I agree, many of these radfems do not really take that hardline of a stance against the trans cult. Many of them seem to be befriending the least repulsive members of the trans cult, but the “feminism” they practice is still on the terms of the trans cult. In other words, worthless. Even if a member of the trans cult doesn’t sent death threats or rape threats to women, they still act like they’re entitled to determine what is feminism and label people who point out that SRS is dangerous and “you’re not really a woman,” as transphobic. So, not interested. My priority is lesbians and other women who have been hurt by this cult, NOT narcissistic men.

            I’ve heard every excuse in the book as to why I should reproduce. The thing is, I am not aware that I have ever convinced any woman who was dead-set on the “baby=happiness” mindset not to reproduce. In spite of that, my not reproducing is regarded as a threat. One of my “favorite” lines is that I could just have one child to replace myself, even though my extended family has already had more than enough kids to replace themselves, me, and every other person in the family who does not have children. I don’t even want to think about how many people will be there to take my place on a global scale or how fucked up the climate will be when I’m old as a result of this.

            Reproducing is required for patriarchy. Even my mom agrees with the Alien comparison, and both of us have been called bigots for being disgusted with the 19 Kids and Counting show. Well excuse me for thinking that kind of right-wing bullshit shouldn’t be glorified. The dominant opinion is that women are supposed to reproduce and it they can’t or won’t, they are not real women. I don’t have the power to censor that opinion and my opinion and your opinion that reproducing is destroying the Earth is the minority opinion.

            Like

          • Bev Jo says:

            I agree! Great about your mom agreeing. The propaganda to reproduce in the US is horrific and it’s all based on money and making more consumers. as well as getting women deeply invested in the continuation of patriarchy. Meanwhile, the earth is being destroyed. Yes, women’s identity is so tied up with reproducting. The crazed reaction to saying no to any of it is like saying no to religion. And I do think the natural reaction of girls and women about all aspects of reproduction is repulsive, in spite of sale of dolls.

            Like

  6. Bev Jo says:

    I don’t know Mar Iguana, but that’s becoming common among the liberals who think they are radical, to try to censor and bully women who write against het and mother privilege. They often start ranting about completely unrelated issues and end up sounding quite right wing. I keep thinking back to our heading “Don’t You DARE Talk Back” as explaining a lot of it, because really we are disobeying those who are used to obedience. The Lesbians of Color I know are in agreement with us though and also against anti-Semitism.

    Recently seeing that bizarre of the Nazi-like ravings on facebook of a European who identifies as feminist (very het and male-identified feminine, and not Radical Feminist at all) made me realize that that same old crap and scapegoating continues. I knew it did, but expect it more with religious fundamentalists.

    I really do not know why some people continuing scapegoating Jewish women with the same old lies, which are often classist as well. Clearly doing that harms all women and people as well. It’s not something I will allow in any groups I moderate or anywhere I am.

    I really agree with all that you said about motherhood, etc. This used to be basic feminist analysis and not even that radical. Now, in Radical Feminist groups they try to wear us down with going on about how oppressed they are, even while showing how much more status they have. And yes, many with sons do teach them how more important they are than girls. It’s horrific really. A new Lesbian I know wanted to take photos of the half-naked Lesbians at the Dyke March for her adult son to see for some bizarre reason like it would be a way for him to see women’s bodies that weren’t porn. Recently in our groups there’s been posts about how male DNA from sons end up in their mothers’ brains, which could explain some of it, but of course it really is all about choice.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. branjor says:

    Hi Bev, I love your blog. I know Mar Iguana. She said that she thinks lesbian separatists are just trying to get straight women into bed and once she told me I was “swinging my big dick around.” She’s best buds with luckynkl. I don’t want to have anything to do with either of them.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Choco says:

      Wow branjor, that’s some disgusting comments from a supposed feminist! I’ve read some disgusting things from luckynkl too; at one point she wrote that women who dress provocatively invited rape, because “why would you deliberately wave a red flag in front of a bull?”

      Speaking of faux feminists, I want to warn everyone about a tumblr user called notcisjustwoman. She wrote a post trying to dox Motherhood (from gendertrender) because she called her out on her antisemitism. She called Motherhood a racist, classist (she repeatedly writes about how she’s from the working poor, as if all the rich Jews are plotting against her), and ableist, because apparently words mean whatever you want them to. This person repeatedly conflates Israel with all Jews, and talks about Zionist conspiracies. With no sense of history or even basic human decency, she wrote that Zionists are oppressors and racists. Zionist in her vocabulary is just a nice way of saying kike. I called her out on gendertrender and she wrote a vicious screed about how Jewish women can’t be feminists and that I’m an “infiltrator.” Since I disagree with her racism, that must mean I’m against feminism, right?

      I just want to repeat what BevJo has wrote in the past: beware of the self proclaimed radical feminists who want to turn feminism into a movement of leaders and cult like followers. And we wonder why there are so many women who are afraid to speak up on feminist blogs, and even call themselves feminists?

      Liked by 1 person

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thanks, Branjor! I love what I’ve seen of your writing too. What is with these women? I guess Mar Iguana is so male-identified and Lesbian-hating that she doesn’t even know that women and Lesbians don’t have “dicks.” Or is she one of the troll agents paid for by governments because there are more of them than are realized, whose job is about destroying our international Radical Feminist movement? Her charge sounds so similar to male hatred of Lesbians.

      Lesbian Separatism has also meant wanting space away from most het women because they perv on Lesbians and want our support about their men, ignoring they are making a choice to be with men. They shouldn’t flatter themselves. I would never want to be intimate with het women. Dyke Separatists want equality and to be with women who actually love women. There are a few good allies, but most het women’s allegiance to men and and obedience in following repulsive male rules of femininity makes them disturbing to even be around . Most hate us or they would already be Lesbians or at least be celibate.

      And yes, Lucky is not someone I trust either. She has been very friendly and then hateful, making bizarre accusations with no explanation, like that somehow I’m “genderqueer” when I have been a Lesbian Separatist since 1972 and have never worked with “genderqueer,” gay men, trans, etc. Our Lesbian Feminist movement and culture here had already stopped trying to work with gay men by the time I found our community in 1970 and we were completely separate. She seemed to be saying that just living in Oakland means we are all genderqueer and clearly has no idea about what my life or community is or has been. Which of course doesn’t stop her from being insulting. I’ll never get over seeing how she treated a woman who was describing her horrific hospital experience of giving birth as many men medical students shoved their hands inside her against her will — this was a very detailed story in a facebook thread about how abusive the male medical system is to women — and Lucky just put her down in the most patronizing way, trivializing what that woman suffered, saying that her own experience was much worse.

      Liked by 1 person

  8. Aradia says:

    I think my comment will be not published, but I’ll try…
    I was born lesbian, I never had sex with a man, and I nor even kissed a man.
    I’m engaged in a relationship with another womyn since 33 years: we are together since I was 15 yo and she was 14.5 yo. We live together since we went at university.
    Now we have both very good jobs, and a good position in society.
    We are both mothers. Two males. And we are proud of them: they are our masterpieces, and they are both heterosexuals. I have yet a daughter-in-law. Our lineage will continue.
    And we are both still more womyn than many of you, because we never slept with a man. Never.

    Get used to it.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      “Get used to it?” Seriously? You really sound like a man here, but I will answer as if you are a woman.

      How are you more of a womyn than me?

      We are all born Lesbians, but in spite of not choosing men at first, you did later in terms of producing males, or, if adopting, choosing males while leaving girls to languish in orphanages. How does that make you more of a womyn than most Radical Lesbian Feminists? Either you decided to welcome semen into your bodies, which is extreme intimate contact with men, and in terms of men and patriarchy, is the more important male rule to obey since you are creating more men (and it’s been known for decades that, unless careful, “artificial insemination” makes 85% males), or you passed up girls needing adoption, and chose males. Either way, it’s nothing to brag about.

      It’s wonderful you and your lover have been together so long, but what a waste to choose to keep patriarchy going by so allying with males. Your “masterpieces?” Really? And with that level of worship, it’s hard to imagine you will care if or when your precious sons sexually harass, sexually assault, or rape girls, women and even animals, as most males do. Your “lineage” and bragging about being so connected to patriarchy economically shows even more how much you are collaborating with patriarchy.

      It’s your life. I don’t have to “get used to it.” You are the kind of bullying women I avoid. It’s really sad that you seem proud of not choosing men originally but ignore how you have since. In terms of being “more women,” you should research how male fetal DNA transfers to the mother.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. Aradia says:

    A “womyn who sounds like a man” is a funny but also a very sad – and very anti-womyn – thought…
    However I’ll give you the benefit of doubt too, and I’ll answer to you as if you’re a womyn.
    First of all: I don’t say I’m more womyn than YOU, I say I’m more womyn than ex-heterosexual womyn. And I’m proud of it.
    Our sons are our masterpieces because they growed up in a matriarchy: our family. A matriarchy is the opposite of patriarchy. We haven’t choose their sex, it happened. And it enlarged our views. We were great fans of Valerie Jean before that happened.
    You’re right when you say that with artificial insemination there are more probabilities to have a male offspring (even if 85% seems quite exaggerated: 61-68% are the percentages that my mind recalls). That’s related both to male behavior and to epigenetic: first of all more a male have sex or masturbate, more likely he would have a male offspring – and usually donors are more sexuality active than non-donors. Second, and most important, due epigenetic reasons manly men are more likely to have a lesbian offspring, and ALSO lesbians are more likely to have a male offspring.
    You’re right when you say we are collaborating with the patriarchy: in fact, we’re replacing them.
    Most males assault women? Right, but not our sons. They treat us like queens, and they depend by us economically, since they are young – they always show great respect towards us: we are the authority for them. The elder even defended a couple of lesbian girls from other males, a couple of years ago: it’s perfectly natural, since he viewed them not only as human beings, but as special human beings: similar to his mothers. And other males – his friends – aided him to did it: this is a direct result of our education, as many other of their behaviors. Also, I always laugh when he express homophobic views towards gays and, at the same time, great empathy towards lesbians. 🙂
    That’s why I call my sons “our masterpieces”.
    I’m not here to troll, I’m here to show another point of view about lesbian motherhood.
    “The hand on the cradle is the hand that rules the world”. We’re building the future.
    Maybe it will be not exactly the future you’re dreaming about, but be sure it will be a far better future for wymyn.

    Like

  10. Bev Jo says:

    I’m leaving your post as an example of what trolling looks like, for women who still don’t know. “…due epigenetic reasons manly men are more likely to have a lesbian offspring, and ALSO lesbians are more likely to have a male offspring.” That is one of the nuttiest things I have ever heard. Being a Lesbian is a choice though it is also what all females are born to. Lesbians who reproduced when het do not have a higher percentage of males, and most of the Lesbians I know had “unmanly” fathers.

    No, it’s not “anti-woman” to question anyone who makes trollish statements, with the combination of reverence for males and hatred for women, like you are doing. Men regularly pretend to be Lesbians to post here and to get into our facebook groups. When someone sounds as anti-woman as you, I have to consider who is writing.

    You said “And we are both still more womyn than many of you, because we never slept with a man. Never. Get used to it.” You didn’t measure yourself against ex-heteosexual women. Do look up the information about mothers absorbing male DNA from fetuses.

    I trust ex-het Lesbians who truly love Lesbians and women more than someone like you who has so intimately bonded with males.

    Your “masterpieces” males are not growing up in a “matriarchy.” You are all still living in patriarchy and your worshipping of them is further proof. You really do not know the history of some of the males raised by Lesbians, how many are more female-hating than average men? Tobi Hill-Meyer, pornographer het man with inside information to hurt Lesbians is one example, but so are the men who killed their Lesbian mothers.

    Your reason about why you had males is ludicrous. Artificial Insemination, unless the semen is centerfuged, will usually produce males because the X sperm has more genetic material and is heavier. The lighter, deficient Y sperm floats to the top. I believe Julia Penelope’s statistics on this and our observation of the massive amount of males produced by “Lesbians.”

    Clearly our chapter upset your fantasy of producing the perfect men. You really should learn basic history to know that women have been trying for millennia to make men be less dangerous. Even learning about the males raised by Lesbians for the past forty plus years should teach you how those boys and men are more dangerous to us, not less. But all this is in our chapter. You clearly have what some of us call the “messiah complex.”

    Thank you for helping prove why our chapter confronting motherhood is so needed.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Aradia says:

    I’m glad to have helped you 🙂
    Just some observations, just only for you, since of course you’ll never publish this message.
    Being a lesbian is a choice: true. Always true. No woman is born heterosexual. There are women born lesbians and women born bisexual. A bisexual woman can choose to be a lesbian. I strongly agree with her. For a reason that probably is disgusting for you: we tried dildo, even anally. Sister: a womyn can do much better with her mouth 🙂 . There’s no need to spread lies, the truth is more powerful: dildo isn’t bad (vaginal – anally it sucks) but oral is FAR better.
    And I never said my sons are perfect: I’m aware they use pornography, for example.
    There’s no need to know stories of men raised by lesbians and becomed lesbian-haters. You are the proof of why. 🙂 we haven’t enforced their behavior: that’s the error of some/many other wymyn.
    Ah, about my criticism of heterosexual women: me and my lover we were used to tell jokes about heterosexual women, so I will make you laugh now (that’s will be a secret between us, since this message will never published): what is the difference between a cis-woman and fog? Nothing. Both are just only a little wet and cold. 🙂
    Your observation about the centrifugation of sperm doesn’t match reality, since the difference in weight due the Y chromosome is less than 0.0001%.
    It was a pleasure to talk with you: you’re the best proof that I did the right choice many years ago.
    First thing I whispered to my son when he was both was: “Mum is sorry for her bad thoughts – I didn’t know how wonderful you would will be”.

    Like

  12. Bev Jo says:

    Oh you didn’t help me at all. You’re just proof of how self-hating women invested in men can become. And how hating of other women.

    No, the very few Lesbians who avoid men and boys are not to blame for male violence. Or for your precious “masterpiece” pricks using pornography.

    But your love of dildos could be an inspiration for the pricks.

    Women who have wanted to reproduce girls have been quite successful in taing into account the weight difference between X and Y.

    You seem confused about many things. “Cis” is not a term for a heterosexual woman. It’s the name men who hate women and want to appropriate our identity call real women.

    Which makes me think that the friend who believes you’re a trannie man posing as a Lesbian might very well be right.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Bev Jo says:

    I’m not going to continue posting “Aradia” offensive comments since I’m tired of moderating her/him. But I’ll respond her comment that she sometimes thinks “a day there will be no more men in our planet: this will solve many problems, but not all, since not all women are good or worthy of respect” — Well, the focus on our book was why women betray each other and how they can stop after learning the levels of collaboration demanded by men. Ironically, the mother/son bond, where many mothers will betray any victims of their son, is one of the biggest problems with women hurting women, including the power of their social status as men-makers.

    Defender of men often say how bad women are, but it’s not women raping girls, women and animals, destroying the earth, etc.

    Again, we explain why this is a dangerous myth that keeps women deeply invested in men, no matter what they do: “motherhood is a great power for us, ‘the hand on the cradle is the hand that rules the world.'” No, being a mother is the most important role men demand of women. Nothing new or powerful about it. If this were true, patriarchy would have ended long ago. The men cradled and made by women rule the world, not the women doing the work.

    The opposite is the truth. Patriarchy would end if women stopped making more men and nurturing them.

    But she gives her own example of women colluding and collaborating with her nauseating worship of their “masterpiece” men who love porn. And she says “About pornography: I don’t like it, but I’m well aware that a man, when he watch pornography, he masturbate, and after that he’s less likely to assault a woman. Indeed the most horrible paedophiles are priests, and they are hardly pornographers. I realized that just thanks to my experience with my sons.”

    Well, this would be news to all the feminists fighting pornography since it’s well known that pornography fuels rape and sexual assault. These women live with their worshipped sons, knowing they are reading porn and wanking off to who knows what grotesque images of women? What a lovely family scenario.

    Lots of comments implying she is so wise now that she’s learned about how wonderful it is to make and live with males. But the reality is that this is relatively new, so I say keep a watch on the porn-loving masterpieces and see what they do as the years pass, although it’s likely these mothers will not know each time their men sexually harass, assualt or rape a girl, woman or animal. Perhaps they will even be proud of them becoming real men?

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Lizzy Shaw says:

    Good article. While it can be difficult to be a mother, that doesn’t mean that it’s not a privilege to be one. Mothers are considered “real women” and non-mothers aren’t. It doesn’t just stop at being a mother either. As a mother, you are expected to make sure that your offspring, especially daughters, reproduce too. My mother is in her mid-fifties and she has a co-worker who is about 10 years younger that her who is already a grandma. Said co-worker has been going on about how bad she feels for my mother because my brother and I haven’t “bothered” to “give” her grandchildren. Maybe I should tell my mother to tell her co-worker that I think pregnancy is similar to the movie Alien and that I’m interested in lesbian separatism. So, my mother is viewed by some people to be pitied because she has two children in their 20s who haven’t reproduced. That said, at least my parents aren’t big on the omg, I need grandbabies right now! thing. My mom already told my brother and I not to expect her to be a babysitter if we decide to have kids.

    I will say though, that I’ve kind of been repulsed by the idea of being pregnant since I hit puberty and I always thought that a good thing about being lesbian is no risk of pregnancy. You put into words why the obsessive promotion of lesbians using A.I. is so creepy and patriarchal. And I did not know that up to 85% of these pregnancies produce male offspring! Such a thing sounds like a bad joke, or a nightmare. But it is the patriarchy’s dream. If being regular males doesn’t let them into lesbian communities, then they try pretending to be lesbians/women, and if that doesn’t work then you can always have some brainwashing propaganda to get lesbians to carry male fetuses.

    No wonder I don’t relate to most stories about lesbians in popular media. The women they show are pretty much lesbians in name only. They often go to extreme, crazy lengths to get male sperm, including having sex with men. (Thus reassuring males and het women that lesbians still need men.) A lot of lesbian characters are more feminine than most het women I know too. It’s ridiculous.

    I also wanted to mention that fetuses are in fact parasites. It’s mentioned in the book “Parasite Rex” by Carl Zimmmer. (It’s a good book, but I would not recommend it to anyone who is squemish.) The reason why Rh- negative mothers eventually reject Rh+ fetuses is because the mother’s body starts to recognize the fetuses as parasites. It’s similar to how people who have had organ transplants have to take immuno-suppressant drugs to keep their bodies from saying “you’ve got parasite” and rejecting the transplanted organ.

    I would say that I agree that if you can choose not to reproduce, then not reproducing is the selfless choice with the problem of overpopulation. The human race needs to stop reproducing if it wants to survive and if it wants other living creatures to survive. (I do think though, that unless we use the nuclear option and completely blow up the Earth, some life might be able to recover after we breed ourselves to death.) Ellen DeGeneres is not being “selfish” by not reproducing. One of my aunts, never reproduced either and got crap from my Catholic grandmother for being “selfish” for not having children.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Bev Jo says:

      I really agree. I think most women and girls when first finding out what reproduction is and the physical damage from it and from being pregnant and giving birth, (which still kills some women), that they would think if it as scary and dangerous and repulsive. It’s only because of the massive propaganda campaign aimed at girls from birth that so many ignore their real and original reactions.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Lizzy Shaw says:

        When I was in middle school, the sex-ed classes where divided up by sex and they showed us girls a video of a woman giving birth to scare us into not having sex, until we were in cookie cutter dysfunctional het marriages of course. I recall that more than half the girls in the class stated saying that they wanted to be nuns because of that video, so there was some backpedaling on the teacher’s part to convince the girls that eventually they would want to be normal and have husbands and babies. I guess if one or two girls wanted to be nuns they wouldn’t have cared, but half the class being nuns isn’t het enough.

        Yes, I do think girls are naturally repulsed by the idea of childbirth when they find out what it entails, and it requires a lot of propaganda to convince them that they want to have babies. (Especially boys. My cousin is pregnant with a boy after having four daughters and I would bet $50 that she won’t have anymore kids after him.) Don’t get me started on people who pay thousands and thousands of dollars for expensive, dangerous fertility treatments and drugs.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Bev Jo says:

          All we got was a few nervous minutes at the end of our last day of biology class, with the nun vaguely describing fucking, and nothing about the rest of it. That was more than enough for the girls to be horrified.

          I agree!

          Liked by 1 person

  15. LakeLily says:

    I tried to research the general number of females in any kind of group of mammals that never reproduce, but I couldn’t find anything. I suppose because this doesn’t support the mainstream rhetoric and is therefore seen as irrelevant not much is done on it. However I know how common it is for females to fight against it. My grandmother has alpacas and at least two, out of FOUR of the females she has, will not mate with the male and my grandmother believes they were forced to have their first lambs/calves-whatever they’re called-and now are traumatized by this. Though she of course didn’t use the word traumatized.
    There is little done in the way of researching why females would fight so ferociously and be so against reproduction if it is part of nature and instinctual. It’s like a dog refusing to eat fresh good meat. Or that’s what the current school of thought would have us believe. I have begun to question all the popular rhetoric about wild animals. Not just on nature shows but also in journals, they make it seem like…lions for instance choose the hunkiest sexiest male(s) and become subservient to them, but it seems more likely the males physically bully the females into tolerating them. Not to mention how could they choose the wimpy make if he’s just been chased off by the other dude? Seems rather familiar though doesn’t it? To ignorant onlookers and with the help of biased “expert” narration it looks like females picking their ideal mate but what is actually–or also–happening is the males are physically overpowering and frightening them.
    And the talk of mothers’ behavior to their offspring. It’s almost as sickening as the human religious reverence of motherhood. What is just a forced change of hormones to make an animal that would normally ignore the baby or kill it instead be nurturing to it is talked of as affection and ‘a special bond’. For love and beauty? No, to ensure the survival of the species. It’s NOT love. It’s a cold natural process, a virtual brainwashing. In fact I think it’s an insult to the concept of love to equate the blind worship that is motherhood with it. I’ve heard that concept a lot, the ‘I don’t like you but I love you’ or “I don’t HAVE to like you but I love you’. It’s never questioned or rejected if in writing, accompanied by heartfelt music on a show. I once with great hesitance and desperation intimated to my grandmother that my mother was a jerk to me, had a terrible temper and made me feel stupid whenever I didn’t live up to her standards (not being hygienic enough for a girl, not wearing ‘attractive clothing’ not smiling and giggling at every male we spoke to, not wearing make-up, not being charismatic, being immature–being into comics, cartoons, and lots of things dudes my age are into). When I had said it, guess what my grandmother said. “But she’s your mother, you still love her, right?”
    Of course, despite the “right” in that sentence it wasn’t a question. It was her telling me what I should and should not feel. I wonder what a grandfather would have told a grandson who said similar things? Funny thing is, I don’t blame my mother. It was obvious she didn’t enjoy being responsible for a young person especially in a world that judges mothers so harshly and almost every time she was nasty to me involved her not wanting me to badly represent her. I blame the world that trapped her in that role that she couldn’t because she would be judged even punished for it. Yes I had to be the one to pay for it, but I still don’t blame her and probably am the only person in the world that wouldn’t. No, I don’t love her, she was too mean for that, and I don’t much like her but we do have some good times together these days.
    Mother’s love brought me nothing but misery so those bitter old and new mommies who get so angry when motherhood is dismissed or outright hated can spit hiss and cry all they want. Tomorrow when they’re screaming at their kid to clean their room or yelling at them not to wipe their three-year old hands on their pretty pretty princess dress (like my sister has done to her daughter) the truth will be bared. But then a while later when the kid is being sufficiently cute or goofy or silly then their god’s own angels and get kisses and baby talk and other rewards. Reward punishment, reward punishment, that’s what motherhood is. Selfless my ass.
    My sister has three little kids she can’t afford and the boys are bought plastic useless pretend tools and tool belts and called ‘my little man’. Already they are rewarded for being big and strong when they’re less than three feet tall and praised for fixing things they never have and aren’t capable of. The amount of times the words ‘for girls’ and ‘for boys’ came out of my sisters mouth was sickening, it literally made me depressed when I lived with her. Mothers play a HUGE role in reproducing patriarchy over and over–just so they have something cute to look at. Motherhood is the ultimate betrayal a not-so-lesbian can commit. And het women. Reproducing is one thing–there might be a way, though unlikely, of working with that– but motherhood is inexcusable. Absolutely without redemption.
    Gosh sorry about the length of this post but nothing burns me up like motherhood. It is my (im)mortal enemy.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Don’t be sorry! This is brilliantly said. You covered so many layers and angles so well.

      The contradictions, double standards, cons, and lies. In cultures were women have the choice to say no, most women reproduce because they choose to be het and do not stop the men from impregnating them. (This is usually where we are called “misogynist” and told that women don’t choose. Well, that is called “rape.” Or we are told many women do not have a choice since they are owned by the men. That is called “slavery.” Anything to divert from what most of the mothers in the countries we are writing in are doing and have done….) So when the women agree to be fucked by men, of course they can get pregnant. I saw friends in high school who despised their mothers for getting pregnant “by accident” who were taking the exact same risk.

      Or women cheerfully choose because they want to be mothers and want all that status, fussing over, privilege, etc. they get in patriarchy, from strangers, their families, etc. You’re right, it’s not about love. The baby is an object. You have to know someone to love them. I believe some animals I know do love their babies, and some women might too, but a lot sure don’t act like it. They act like they hate their little girls in forcing them to draw attention and praise that the mothers demand. My mother bringing me as a very little girl in a dress to bars to set me on drunken men’s laps to get praise was not loving me. I could barely stand to go into Lesbian bars the first time because of the same smell of alcohol and smoke.

      Anyway, love your ending. We are hated for saying the truth, hated for talking about the privilege, told we are privileged and mothers oppressed, yet that facts are all there, and women still say they want to reproduce even though it’s killing the world….

      Like

      • Lizzy Shaw says:

        This is a reply to both posts, but I like what you said. I do know women, in my own family, who only had kids for the privilege. One cousin does it to try to get her boyfriends to stay with her and it never works. Two of her daughters had children to get her to pay attention to them. I do have a usually have a good relationship with my mom and she loves me, but that’s the exception to the rule. So many women do treat their kids like objects.

        The line that they pull about not having a choice is obviously a lie in most cases in this country. Not to mention it is insulting to women who were actually raped or were/are slaves. Willingly having sex with a man isn’t rape and willingly deciding to be a mother isn’t slavery. It’s more of the same old boring het fantasy about how they’re victims while they are trying to get as much privilege as possible. If anything, I’d argue that if anyone is the victim it is their kids. Women who have babies for the attention are often terrible parents and children born today don’t have a say in the fact that the world will be even more severely overpopulated and they will be competing with us for resources in the future.

        As for lesbians having artificial insemination babies, I bet that they’ll come crying to us in the future when their son proves not to be an exceptional special snowflake man and then say they were brainwashed.

        @LakeLily

        I feel sympathy for you about your sister. Many women do enforce rigid sex roles on their children and keep the patriarchy going; I have many cousins who are like that. Ugh, and it is a big pet peeve of mine when people who should know better just keep having kids they can’t afford. My brother and I were not planned by at least my dad got sterilized after my brother was born because my parents, especially my mother who grew up in poverty, didn’t want us to be poor. Not to mention, my parents were in their 30s when we were born. (Although, I will tell het women that most dudes won’t get a vasectomy because they judge their maleness by how many times they can impregnate their wife/girlfriend with children they can’t afford.) The financial situation for most of my immediate family isn’t that great right now thanks to George Bush’s Great Depression, but it’s not like we’re starving or were ever starving as children.

        One other thing is that I would like to very much destroy the notion that you can become a complete adult by having children. It is so not true, especially when you see the destructive patterns so many of my relatives impose on their children! Not to mention, many of them are mad jealous of me for doing what I wanted to do (which was go to college, even if I do have debt from it) instead of settling for a crap job to pay for the kids. (Oh, and in many cases, to also support the man because he doesn’t work or do your typical stay-at-home parent duties, like clean the fucking place or interact with the children.) They are also jealous that I don’t have a scumbag man mooching off of me, though they do defend their man. Whatever. I am child free and parasite man free because I am a lesbian. All my money belongs to me (and okay, bill collectors but after that it belongs to me) and I don’t share it with a waste of space boyfriend. I would like to see if there are any lesbians in my area that want to start up a lesbian separatist deal and invest my energy in that kind of thing.

        Like

        • Bev Jo says:

          I really appreciate all that you say. Thank you! You are so right about how the kids of women who have them for the attention suffer. Jon-Benet Ramsay is an example of the baby “beauty” queen contests, where the man who perved on her, raped and murdered her had been watching her perform.

          Actually, the Lesbians who had the really horrible and dangerous sons usually revel in that. One of the first in our community and now a man recently posted lauding a very Hard Fem preening photo along with the worshipful Lesbians.

          Like

  16. JJ says:

    I’m a late twenties, asexual, and lifelong celibate woman who is just getting into radical feminism and I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the article.

    I am also childfree and antinatalist, so your article made me really examine some of the thoughts I have had related to reproduction/motherhood and it introduced me to some new ways of thinking.
    I really appreciate how you break things down in an easy-to-understand format. You are making things much more clear to me and I appreciate you sharing your wisdom and experiences with me.

    P.S. Something I thought of in response to one of your most recent posts in the comment section about women’s/girls’ natural/innate feelings about reproduction vs. doll sales. I’m morally opposed to reproduction, I find sex repulsive (I don’t mind people consenting to sex if they desire it, but the negatives outweigh the positives for me), pregnancy is my worst nightmare, and I’m indifferent to babies, but I’m really into dolls. I think they are really beautiful and perfect and I find it fascinating how they look like humans but aren’t.

    The mindfuck that the patriarchy has been trying to induce with the doll pushing really bothers me because it doesn’t have to be that way. I wish dolls could just be dolls. This is one of the reasons I don’t understand why people are bothered by boys playing with dolls. They are all just objects, meaningless things that can help us feel less stressed out about the harsh nature of reality. Not fully sure what I’m saying, but I just wanted to share those thoughts. LOL.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thank you so much too.

      The issue about dolls is that it’s training for girls to have babies, and that’s what always irritated me when I was little.

      But about “sex,” men teach women to disconnect the heart, mind, body, and spirit, and so of course that kind of sex is repulsive. I don’t even use that word for Lesbian intimacy. Being a Lesbian is about love, and when your heart is open and you deeply love another woman who loves you back, then that magic and passion flows. Not a cold wanting to touch particular body parts, but the flowing of looking into each other’s eyes, wanting to hold her and kiss her… and the rest does flow. That’s part of the damage the bisexeuals did who brought their male-identified porn and sex books and sado-masochism into our community — they dirtied intimacy between women into cold and empty sex, where they taught women what to do. When you love a woman, you know what to do, and so does she. And it’s about loving her, and wanting her to feel that love completely. This is what men want to break in us and steal from us. And then they say they are Lesbians. They have no idea and will never experience being intimate with a Lesbian. But they also do not want real women to experience that level of love either.

      But so much better to be celibate your entire life than to be intimate with men who hate us.

      Like

  17. Pingback: Motherhood: The Ultimate Feminine Role | Your social constructs are showing

  18. KgSch says:

    Amen to this! I am glad I am not the only person who is creeped out by “lesbians” doing artificial insemination and making a ton of male babies! I hate, hate, hate that the popular stereotype of lesbians is that we always have a turkey baster of semen on hand to make babies. (And of course we all do fem/butch roleplaying with the fem lover carrying the pregnancy) It’s beyond disgusting. I agree this isn’t a term of semantics; it’s about not letting women who choose to be hetero or bi define us out of existence and choosing to be pregnant means choosing to at least be bisexual. (Cue angry ranting from mothers and wanna-be mothers pointing to countries with forced child-bride marriages, even though that doesn’t apply to them.)

    In high school I met another girl who said that she was a lesbian and had a girlfriend, but it turned out that both of them were fucking men because “you can’t have sex without a dick and we want kids someday”. Of course, she told me I was being rude when I told her she was a bisexual and that she was full of crap if she thought that letting guys fuck her was the only “real” sex. She and the “girlfriend” were both 18, but it was still fucked up they were deliberately trying to get pregnant.

    Yes, I do think in a lot of cases it’s about social standing and not love. Those girls at my high school were living a in a total delusional fantasy. They didn’t have jobs and they viewed babies as objects who would give them unconditional love. There is endless propaganda saying the only real women are the ones who breed, and praising the family who pushes out 19 or 20 kids is a good example. (Some of the men in the family have been sexually assaulting women apparently, big fucking shock.) At least not everyone is brainwashed; my parents and my late grandma all think the show is disgusting.

    It’s telling how just being a woman who says, “I’m not having children” results in contempt or smug, condescending comments from mothers and wanna-be mothers about how you’ll change your mind in the future and feel silly. It’s disgusting how they expect unquestioned obedience and everyone to have their values when even my own mother does not talk to me in that way when I disagree with her.

    I do think lesbians are made to feel guilty for not having children. The wikipedia pages for Portia de Rossi and Ellen DeGeneres mentions a few times how the couple has no plans for children. Such a thing is mentionable because they are not being “normal” by refusing to breed.

    “Het women’s obsession with reproduction is so extreme that some women get pregnant even when they know for certain that their child will inherit an excruciating, fatal disease. That’s “love”?”

    I really like this quote. When I was in high school, we watched “Lorenzo’s Oil” and learned about other genetic disorders, and we had to answer whether it was selfish to have children knowing that they may get a horrible, incurable disease that causes them to suffer and die. I was one of the few people who said it was selfish and many other people said that you just can’t help but want children. (Hey, what about adoption if you really want kids but are the carrier of a horrible genetic illness?) I read a magazine article about cystic fibrous, where this woman had five children with the disease. She claimed not to know she and her husband were carriers with the first child, but what’s her excuse for continuing to breed after the first child was diagnosed? It’s beyond selfish and it was disgusting how the article portrayed her as a martyr. I had an aunt who had a child with cystic fibrous who died when he was 18. This was before genetic testing was common and more affordable, but she didn’t keep having kids after her first child got the diagnoses because she was not a selfish person with a martyr complex.

    It’s also true that the risks of pregnancy are never discussed in detail. The abstinence-only “sex ed” I had in middle school mentioned that pregnancy was more risky for teenagers than women in their 20s (true, one of the only things they said that wasn’t a lie), but they still didn’t go into details. Anti-choice conservatives like to point to women who have died getting abortions while ignoring that in reality it is much safer to get a legal abortion than to give birth. The truth is in plain site, because think of how many movies, TV shows, and books where there is a character who doesn’t have a mom because she died in childbirth.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Excellent! I try to explain that motherhood privilege includes het-passing privilege, but tumblr radfems are against naming it. – C.C.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thank you@ “Radfems” usually are not feminists and are liberals to right wing. They don’t want to give up het or het-passing privilege, and would rather women obey men by getting pregnant than think about it.

      Like

  20. k.jane says:

    I agree with Cameron that having a kid makes you more likely to pass as het.

    As for radfems on tumblr, some are okay but there’s not a lot of real radical feminism analysis going on and many are liberal feminists who call themselves radfems because they’re mildly critical of the trans cult. Many of them still don’t want to give up any heterosexual privilege or passing-as-heterosexual privilege or look at things like motherhood to closely. It really is a sacred cow.

    The same goes for some other sites like wordpress. They believe that socialization is the only reason why men are awful (lol, nope) and that if enough strong feminist women raised good sons patriarchy will be fixed. You can try, but most likely you will just be disappointed and be so high on the belief that your son is a special unicorn that you’ll be looking the other way when he starts with the male violence. And even if you believe in the socialization idea, parents are only one of the influences a child has. They will still be around their peers and other people, particularly as they get older and start going to school.

    I think a more logical thing to do is to instead built a community with lesbians who aren’t betraying us to the trans cult and actually focus on helping women and girls who are abused by men. But that doesn’t give the same privilege as having a unicorn son.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      I agree. Enough males have been raised by Lesbians now to see how terrible they can be, like pornographer Tobi Hill-Meyer, who had been brought to MichFest as a boy and is now saying he’s a Butch and censoring real Butches while on the board at Butch Voices, and posting videos of his prick being wanked off.

      Yes, a community actually of Lesbians with no betrayal would be great, but why not for once just focus on Lesbians?

      Like

      • k.jane says:

        You are right, we should just focus on lesbians. I should have worded that better. I guess I’m still surprised by how many women think that they can raise “feminist” sons and that will solve patriarchy and don’t seem to care about females who have been victims of male violence that much.

        You do bring up a good point throughout your blog that lesbians are supporting everything and everyone but us. We should have our own spaces and not buy into the trans cult or other patriarchal institutions.

        Like

        • Bev Jo says:

          It’s a constant struggle, and yet I don’t see other oppressed groups focusing on everyone but their own community. Lesbians and woman also have divided allegiances, which is why getting women strongly invested in males and patriarchy has succeeded in dividing us so well.

          I first saw Lesbian Feminists prioritizing het women and what they needed. Then it was gay men with AIDS, which is an avoidable STD. Gay men, who publicly despised us and called us “dirty,” and kicked out dying Lesbians from the Shanti project. After all that training, no surprise that het men posing as Lesbians would be the next center of attention. Although, many Lesbians STILL volunteer for AIDs organizations, bringing in millions of dollars, while dying Lesbians have nothing.

          Like

          • k.jane says:

            That’s a really got point. Actually, when I first came out as a teenager I thought lesbians were at increased risk for AIDS because it was branded as a “LGBT+” issue. So, I was surprised when I did some research and found out that lesbians actually have lower risks of STDs, including AIDS, than everyone else.

            It is a cleaver parasitism. Every “LGBT+” group I’ve gone to, even ones that have had a majority of lesbians has been about AIDS fundraisers and drag shows. Truthfully, I don’t trust most big name charities because the CEOs make a lot more money than I could ever hope for. Shame I never learned in school that if I wanted to be set for life I should be a CEO for a non-profit! Plus all the cure “insert disease here” charities only go to research and CEO salaries and there doesn’t seem to be many to help poor people pay for their medications.

            I agree that gay men aren’t automatically our friends. Being close allies with them results in a parasitic relationship where they take our limited resources and don’t give anything back. It’s kind of like a queerified version of heterosexuality. Gay men can be discriminated against when it comes to jobs, but lesbians are doubly discriminated against and they still as a group have more resources than lesbians.

            I guess after learning that literally everyone else is more important than lesbians, it’s not surprising that hetero men with a lesbian fetish are next on the list of poor souls we must save. You are right. I don’t see any other oppressed group doing this. Black people who are part of the “Black Lives Matter” movement don’t spend most of their resources making sure white people’s feelings don’t get hurt and after Rachel Dolezal, it’s clear that organizations like NAACP don’t think there’s a such thing as “trans-black”.

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