DEFINING LESBIANS OUT OF EXISTENCE — “TRANSWOMEN” ARE SIMPLY MEN (And over 80% don’t even have surgery)

    Chapter Two

DEFINING LESBIANS OUT OF EXISTENCE

   Bev Jo

                                                              — The Pretenders —

    PART ONE

“TRANSWOMEN” ARE STILL MERELY MEN

I’m discovering that eighty percent of the men claiming to be “transwomen” have refused surgery and even female hormones, so I’ve changed the title.  Really, “transwomen” are just a variation on female impersonators. 1

This should be a simple issue. How could our oppressors – men – possibly become us? How? Just by saying they are?  By the male medical industry and doctors making money off this game, declaring that they can turn men into women?  Would you agree with these men if they claimed to be a different race than they are, a race they are in a position to oppress?  Would you believe them if they claimed to be of a different species?  Why not?

Once again, as expected in patriarchy, men are made more important than any women. (Even NCLR, the National Center for Lesbian Rights, works for men and against Lesbians.)2 If you do accept them as Lesbians, would you (as a Lesbian) want to be lovers with one?  Why not?  If you are hesitant to say “no” to their claims and demands, in spite of what you feel inside, why?  What is it that makes you agree to something that doesn’t feel right?  Does it remind you of other times when it was hard to deal with a man who refused to take “no” for an answer?

Here is an example of how female these men truly are, from a card that “transwomen” hand out to women going to the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, one of the only spaces left with a policy of “womyn-born-womyn:”

“Second-Wave ‘Feminists,’ A hot load from my monstrous tranny-cock embodies womanhood more than the pieces of menstral (sic) art your transphobic cunts could ever hope to create.”

On the other side of the card is a silhouette of a female shape with a large erect prick and the words, “Real women have cocks.”

There is a global war going on against all girls and women. Girls and women who are murdered are most likely to be killed by boys and men that they know. Most girls and women are sexually assaulted (again, most often by males they know), and all of us are exposed without choice to insulting, demeaning, female-hating pornographic images throughout the media. The onslaught is constant, including in the “LGBTQI etc.” media.

It’s a hell of a way to grow up and a hell of a way to live.

The Lesbian Feminist movement did make a huge difference and gave us hope, but it’s being eroded and assaulted into nothingness. The biggest threat to the last female-only space is men claiming to be Lesbians.

It’s essential to not be taken by the myriad ways that men try to con and manipulate us. Men want access to all women, and Lesbians are a favorite theme in male pornography. Men also envy us and our culture and our communities. Some will go to almost any length to get to us. One particularly insidious form that this invasion takes is by some men claiming THEY are Lesbians. This would be laughable if it wasn’t so serious, and if most Lesbians didn’t seem to believe them.

Some castrated men simply lie, and claim to be “biological women” or “womyn-born-womyn.” I believe most would try this if they weren’t so obviously male, so the majority insist that they are “transwomen” or “Male-to-Female Transsexuals” and that they have just as much right to be in women-only and Lesbian space as real women and Lesbians. They even say that we oppress them!  If we dare to fight to defend our rare, precious women-only space, we’re accused of needing to be educated and of being “bigoted,” “ignorant” and “transphobic.”  These men have made up a bizarre name for real females — “cis-gender” — which is another way of defining us out of existence. (This is as insidious as replacing “Women’s Studies” with “gender studies” and replacing Feminist professors with men — all part of trying to destroy the international Lesbian and Feminist movement.)

We’re not stupid – some of us have been fighting these men for 40 years. And we’re not “phobic” – we’re not afraid of men claiming to be us, we’re oppressed by them!

You can think about this issue in one of three ways:

1. You can just ignore men claiming to be Lesbians (which is possible only if you don’t go to any Lesbian events and if you don’t care about our community being destroyed).

2. You can choose to accept them when they insist they are Lesbians and women – but know that your choice is seriously hurting and demeaning all Lesbians and women.

3. You can refuse to have one more lie shoved down your throat and believe what is obvious to everyone who’s been around these incredibly arrogant men for any length of time (such as at just one “women only” event): “Transwomen” are not and can never be women or Lesbians – they are simply men, trying to steal our identity and culture.

One way to begin to fight their oppressing Lesbians and women is to refuse to give them what they want. At the very least, PLEASE stop calling them “women” in any form, and stop using female pronouns for them.

If these men actually had some tiny amount of caring for women and Lesbians, they would recognize how much we need women-only and Lesbian-only space, and would never try to force themselves on us.

Instead, they act like typical men and intimidate and guilt trip – everything is about them. And the hell with any Lesbian who gets in their way. Some have also learned what to say to sound believably female, but if you question a bit further, they revert quickly to male bullying techniques.

In a liberal attempt to not hurt their feelings, in spite of how glaringly male they are, too many women and Lesbians support them against the rest of us. It’s the old patriarchal male-worshipping tradition of putting any male above all females.

The usual comment I hear from their advocates (who are quick to betray any Lesbian or woman who’s been attacked by these men) is, “Why would they go through so much if they weren’t really women?”  Well, these days they don’t go through much other than dressing up as some man’s idea of what a woman should look like. As for those who do have surgery, men do a lot of bizarre things for sexual gratification, such as strangling themselves to have more exciting orgasms, which has resulted in some unintentional suicides (such as that by David Carradine.)  Some do other painful and dangerous rituals, including having objects inserted into their heads to simulate horns, having their skin completely tattooed to look like green scales and their tongue split to appear a bit like reptiles (about as convincing as when men try to appear like women). Other men disable themselves by amputating limbs deliberately. Men don’t always think about the consequences when they decide they want to do something bizarre or when they want to invade and mark territory.

It’s not up to us to explain why they do what they do. It’s like expecting Lesbians to explain why men and boys rape females, and rape, torture, and kill animals, and, why, as soon as boys can stand, they start to throw rocks without caring who’s in the way.  They just don’t make sense. And they KNOW their desire for violence is part of how they are biologically different from us, in mind and body. Ironically, and tragically, it’s Feminists who are the ones most often claiming that male violence is “socialization.” For years, most Lesbian Feminists agreed with the mainstream media that males were not intrinsically evil, and that their misogyny was a result of socialization – “He raped and killed all those women because he was sexually abused in childhood.”  If that was the case, wouldn’t most women be serial killers?  Male animals aren’t socialized to rape and kill, but they do. The evidence is there. Men know it. They know they are innately different from females. Ask them if you doubt it. Even progressive Michael Moore admitted on Bill Maher’s HBO show, “We want to fuck anything in front of us.” It’s only females who argue on male’s behalf that we are all really the same. And no matter how nice a man seems, I always say, we never know what they’re doing when alone with babies or animals.

In 1979, Janice Raymond published her brilliant The Transsexual Empire: The Making of the She-Male, describing the harm castrated men do to Lesbian community. She says this actually has been going on for centuries, from when “eunuchs were men that other more powerful men used to keep their women in place.3  She also explains, “Because transsexuals have lost their physical ‘members’ does not mean that they have lost their ability to penetrate women—women’s mind, women’s space, women’s sexuality.  Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women so that they seem noninvasive.”4

Many Lesbians ask, “Well, what can they do without their pricks?” The answer is that female impersonators have been able to get into our communities and culture much further than other het and bisexual men can, and they have done far more damage. They prevent us from having female-only space, which has been one of men’s goals for a very long time. Castrated men are more likely to ignore public Lesbian events, and instead focus specifically on invading the rare remaining women-only space, which, of course destroys it. And increasingly, they aren’t even castrated!  (Beyond the mind-fuck, how many of the 80% not castrated men have raped women?)

They also get into power positions in our communities, including as writers and historians, pretending to speak for us, erasing and re-writing our Lesbian history. I recently saw a book that was showcased in a local bookstore, called “Gay by the Bay: A History of Queer Culture in the San Franciso Bay Area,” which is edited by two men, one claiming to be a Lesbian.  The history of my Lesbian Feminist community from 1970 on was missing.  Instead was a misrepresentation of Lesbians, portraying us as being politically and socially involved with gay men in a way that we never were. A tiny photo of the cover of “Amazon Quarterly” was included, sayin it was an example of “the many Separatist publications” from that time. I had worked on the first issue, but after that, it became extremely anti-Separatist.

As Janice Raymond says, “All transsexuals rape women’s bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating their body for themselves.”  It’s actually reminiscent of the “Invasion of the Body Snatchers.”

Female impersonators have bizarre fetishized ideas of what it means to be female, based on an obsession with male-defined patriarchal rules of femininity and pornography. If you try to get them to actually explain what being female means to them beyond wearing make-up and revealing clothing made by men for women, wanting to imitate models or movie stars, they can’t do it. Perhaps some eventually learn a few tricks, like the divorced father of several children who confided to me that it was the Lesbian teacher and Lesbian students in a women’s studies class in Aotearoa (New Zealand) who taught him to give up his skirts, dresses, make-up, and high heels so he could look like a “real Dyke.”  He also had his way paid to go to an Oakland Lesbian and Gay conference, which would have cost thousands, yet there was no sliding scale or reduced rate from the $200 charged poor Lesbians (so very few of us were able to go). Female impersonators are not just accepted – they’re given preferential treatment at our expense.

The myth of the poor man who always felt like a girl growing up is contradicted by the many longtime married men with grown children who decide later in life that they are Lesbians. (Most still keep their wives. I know of at least one who got his employer to sign a statement guaranteeing that his higher male salary would not be reduced after he “transitioned.”)  Did they get bored with all their privilege or did they watch too much “Lesbian”-themed porn.

Another proof of the right wing, anti-Lesbian and anti-gay basis of “transsexualism” is that in fundamentalist Muslim Iran, where Lesbians and gay men are executed, the government actually pays for transsexual surgeries:

“Sex changes have been legal in Iran since Ayatollah Khomeini, the spiritual leader of the 1979 Islamic revolution, passed a fatwa – a religious edict – authorizing them for ‘diagnosed transsexuals’ 25 years ago. Yet homosexuality is still punishable by death. ‘The discussion is fundamentally separate from a discussion regarding homosexuals. Absolutely not related. Homosexuals are doing something unnatural and against religion,’ says Kariminia. ‘It is clearly stated in our Islamic law that such behaviour is not allowed because it disrupts the social order.’”5

The damage female impersonators cause internationally is tremendous – they have destroyed or tried to destroy the very ways by which women try to protect and heal ourselves from male violence, such as Women’s Centers, Battered Women’s Shelters, and Rape Crisis Centers, internationally, as well as destroying the last remaining, rare, and precious spaces where we meet and create Lesbian community, such as the Michigan Women’s Music Festival.  If these men were really so female-minded and cared about women and girls, would they really sue so their male voice could be what a raped women or girl has to hear when she calls a Rape Crisis line? (The lawsuit was in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. But men are now regularly on Rape Crisis lines in the U.S.)

The sense of entitlement and arrogance of these men is glaring – they act like any other man who thinks he has the right of access to all women. Their manipulation with guilt is such a typical het male trick too. When I was a teenager visiting a new friend, a male friend of hers came by – he wasn’t even her boyfriend, but he let her know he wanted to fuck her, right then and there. No concern that she might not want that or that she could get pregnant. No concern for her at all, or even that I was visiting her. She acquiesced, in front of me. Later, she was worried about getting pregnant, but hadn’t wanted to hurt his feelings. Over 40 years later, I was at a public lecture and film about Lyme disease. One of the alternative healers there was angry at her boyfriend and announced to the audience that he had given her Lyme disease through sexual contact. It didn’t matter that it was a roomful of strangers – he got on the floor and knelt in front of her and kept shoving his face into her lap – obviously begging for more sexual access to her. She didn’t shove him away. It was disgusting to be made an unwilling participant in this bizarre male game, but interesting to see how they have no shame in their demand that girls and women give them what they want – which is to keep fucking, and fucking us over.

Men claiming to be Lesbians come across the exact same way – as if they have a claim to all women, and as if we belong to them and owe them.6  A common theme among female impersonators is that we are somehow responsible for violence against them, including when they are murdered. They ignore that it’s men who are attacking them. Men attack and kill far more women and Lesbians than they do female impersonators, but they don’t care, and the fact that they also are men is ignored. Such male sense-of-entitlement. It is all about them – they are selfish and narcissistic, and don’t care how they hurt Lesbians and women and our communities. They have no respect for us or for our need and desire to have our own Feminist and Lesbian culture away from them. They are acting out of the same drive to mark territory that is in all men, and particularly obvious in rapists. What part of “no” don’t they understand?

I’ve been a Separatist since 1972, and so haven’t been around men in social situations by choice very often. But since almost nothing for Lesbians is now women-only, I’ve been around some het men at Lesbian events in the last few years.  One thing has become quite obvious to me – most het men at these events act far less aggressive, bullying, and sense-of-entitlement-male than castrated men claiming to be Lesbians. And that’s pretty bad, isn’t it?

                      Misplaced Sympathy and Generosity

“But you don’t know what it’s like to grow up feeling like you’re different and not belonging.” That has actually been said to me to get me to understand how hard it is for a man pretending to be us. Well, I have known exactly what it feels like from my earliest memories, knowing no one else was like me. But my growing up a Lesbian and Butch doesn’t count next to a man’s complaints.

I have heard so many women say how terrible it must be to feel like you were born into the wrong body growing up. It doesn’t seem to occur to them that these men are simply lying. Even some “radical” Lesbians have fallen for this con. Yet how many ex-het Lesbians have you ever heard say, “It must be terrible to grow up always feeling like you never belonged because you knew you were a Lesbian and there was no one else like you?  (After all, most oppressed people grow up with their own families and communities sharing their culture and experiences.)  Why is it so much easier to imagine and care about the “oppression” a man claims to have rather than to care about a Lesbian’s real oppression?

If I told you I was a bird, would you believe and accept me as one?  Why not?  Don’t I have the right to self-identify and don’t you have the obligation to respect that?  Aren’t you being a bigot and oppressing me if you don’t respect my identity as a bird?

Anyone who dares to protest men claiming to be women and Lesbians is told the anti-Feminist, seemingly liberal (but actually reactionary) line that we have no right to not accept someone’s definition of themselves. We are told to ignore our basic common sense, to ignore what is obvious to any woman who is exposed to these men, and to betray our loyalty to other women and Lesbians on behalf of the patriarchy and male supremacy. Being called a “bigot” when you have been fighting true bigotry since girlhood can be very daunting and hurtful to kind, caring, compassionate Lesbians and women who are against injustice – especially if they don’t have support.

Imagine if every time you protested something the right wing had done to hurt people, you were yelled at and called names for oppressing right wing people. That makes about as much sense as what happens to any woman who dares protest the power these men have.

The assumption is that Lesbians are in a power position over the men who pretend to be females or the females pretending to be men. But BOTH groups have more power than Lesbians – either they have experienced male privilege or they’re getting male privilege now. It’s like accusing Lesbians of being “male- phobic” when we dare to question male privilege and male crimes against females.

Imagine another oppressed group being so welcoming to their oppressor who claims to feel like (and therefore be) them?  Would Lesbians and women so readily accept or be bullied to accept a white man who demands to be accepted as another race – a race he has power over and is in a position to oppress? And would he be accepted into that community and get into positions of power as a spokesman for that community? I would hope anyone with a heart and half a brain would object. So why accept a man claiming sex change is possible, if a race change is obviously ridiculous and oppressive?  Why then are women and Lesbians valued so little that most are flattered when men pretend to be us?

We would not have nearly as much trouble in dealing with these invasive castrated men if it wasn’t for the many Lesbians who rush to support them against other Lesbians. Collaborators enable and promote many evils in patriarchy.7

It’s outrageous that Lesbians, who don’t know the history of their own Lesbian culture, call us “ignorant” for objecting to men being in our communities. It’s classist and arrogant, as well as self-hating. Lesbians’ desire to protect “transsexuals” is also about how kind and loving Lesbians can be to anyone they think is suffering. Lesbians are involved in far larger numbers than our percentage of the population in organizations fighting for people and animals and forests and every cause imaginable. Of course these are important issues, but it’s time for Lesbians to also fight for Lesbians.

One of our greatest strengths as females and Lesbians is our ability to have open hearts and to want to care for and support anyone who claims to be vulnerable or needing help. It’s also one of our greatest weaknesses. Rapists know this and use it to con victims. Serial rapist and killer Ted Bundy often pretended to have an injury to get access to women who otherwise would have been more wary.

Being obsessed with fetishizing male-invented femininity that caricatures real females is nothing like being female. If a man cries and says he always felt oppressed as a girl growing up and really wants/needs to be with us, most women accept him and begin to “educate” (bully) other women and Lesbians on his behalf. I understand this sympathy from Lesbians and women, but don’t understand how they can then be so heartless and cruel to the Lesbians and women these men hurt. I believe it’s on the continuum with the women who will love men, no matter what they’ve done, and who will chase and marry serial rapists and killers in prison. They are male-worshipping. And I believe that castrated men are far more male in their minds and behavior than even many men who are still full of testosterone. Do these men’s supporters really not notice the next moves “transwomen” make once in a Lesbian community, and how incredibly male and un-female-like they are? There is nothing female about castrated men. It’s almost like women feel so sorry for them in their repulsive bodies and minds, with their very ugly rendition of what they think is a “feminine” womanly appearance, that they overlook their aggressive male behavior.

How can any woman or Lesbian value herself and the rest of us so little that she thinks we are nothing more than the absence of a prick? — Or that the male medical profession, for whom this has become big business, can create females out of males?  Another attempt at bullying with guilt is when female impersonators claim they have a “birth defect.”  How could anyone be so cruel as to deny someone something based on such a thing? This ploy is oppressive to truly intersex people. But expect that more castrated men will falsely identify as intersex, although intersex organizations do NOT want to be identified with castrated men.

What Do You Call a Man Who Refuses to Take “No” for an  Answer?

This issue is personal to me because I was recently called a “bigot” by a “Feminist” friend for refusing to use female pronouns for the man who sexually harassed me when I was a teenager. I’ve felt stalked by him for over 40 years, but I can’t get away from him even in “women-only” space. I think it’s outrageous that any Lesbian or woman should have to see a man who has harassed her in what should be safe space. (This man didn’t go beyond pressuring me, but please remember that all of these men have pasts, and assume many will have raped girls or women. They’re MEN, after all.)

I also have a unique perspective when I say I know that many castrated men are lying.

In 1968, when I was 17, I met Elliott at the University of San Francisco. He had been in a Jesuit seminary high school and just could not understand why I wouldn’t be his girlfriend. He could not grasp why I was in love with Marg and not interested in him, since he was a man, after all, and she was just a girl. He’d never thought of Lesbians before, and certainly did not feel he was a woman in a man’s body. We were in a poetry group together and I remember clearly a poem he wrote that was completely about phallic images. I had no Feminist awareness then, but it disgusted me. Elliott was so proud of his adolescent male poem, and when I see him now, he still acts the same, except that he’s learned pseudo-feminist jargon and now claims he’s a Lesbian.

I’d never seen Feminist writing and the only Lesbian book I’d read was “The Well of Loneliness,” in which the Lesbian character gives up the woman she loves so her lover  can find true happiness with a man. The only movies about Lesbians that I saw were “The Children’s Hour,” “The Fox,” and “The Killing of Sister George,” which all were incredibly stereotyped in their Lesbian-hatred and which had a horrible effect on Marg and me.

I could feel Elliott watching me as the months went by, and, if I seemed to begin to be friends with other men, he would go into a rage and cry. I transferred to a different school to try to be with Marg, but still stayed in touch with Elliott. He said he’d fallen in love with another Lesbian and that she’d made love to him as if he “were a woman.” He also told me about having sex with a man. After a while, he decided he was a Lesbian and took a first name as close to my name as he could get, and dyed his hair a similar red to mine. (Wouldn’t that creep you out?)

Often, these men want to get into Lesbian communities because they are not very successful as typical het men. Many seem to be failures in getting access to women, and realize that not only are Lesbian communities an untapped source of exceptionally tolerant women — as well as a way to fulfill that male fantasy of Lesbians – but that they also can get into power positions they never would have been able to get into as just the pathetic men that they are.

Almost immediately, this seemingly meek, passive man got into power positions in the Lesbian community. He was accepted into the Daughters of Bilitis (one of the first Lesbian organizations) and quickly became vice president, which caused a split leading to the end of that organization — so one of his first acts as a pretend Lesbian was incredibly destructive to us. Then he was invited to perform his “Lesbian” music at the LA Lesbian Feminist Conference in 1973 and now claims to be one of the originators of “Women’s Music.” He continued to get into every power position in our community that he could, lying whenever possible if asked if he were a “womyn-born-womyn” – which is what he told the Feminist “off our backs” newspaper collective when they questioned him before printing his long article titled “Lesbian Sex”(where he bragged about the many women who’d “loved” having sex with him.) He became the regular “Lesbian” columnist for “The Bay Area Reporter,” a local gay and Lesbian publication. Meanwhile, I would see his racist and self-centered letters in other gay publications. When I tried to counter one in which he compared Mexican immigrants to German Nazis (“Del Norte is Spanish for Lebensraum”), he countered by slandering me in the worst way he could think of. I began telling Lesbians to be aware that when they read something racist, classist, or otherwise oppressive by a “Lesbian,” that it might not actually be a Lesbian or even a woman who wrote it.

When it suited him, Elliott stopped being a Lesbian long enough to get printed in a bisexual women’s anthology, so there are two reasons he shouldn’t be identifying as a Lesbian.

I didn’t see him for years, but then found out that he was regularly performing his “songs” at one of the only “women only” open mics in the San Francisco Bay Area. He still played the guitar badly and bellowed out of tune songs about how angry he was that women wanted to “bed” him, but not “wed” him. (I haven’t seen any signs of either happening.) I had no choice but to accept his presence if I wanted to participate in this part of the community. Then, an African-American friend told me she had recently met Elliott and that he’d been incredibly racist and patronizing to her. She was not used to hearing such right-wing politics as his in the Lesbian community. (He told her that the police must have had good reason to have arrested her friend, Henry Louis Gates, at his own home, and Elliott also agreed with McCarthy’s 1950’s “House on UnAmerican Activities” boycott of Leftists like Pete Seeger.)  My friend felt threatened enough to change her phone number.

I started ignoring Elliott at Lesbian events after hearing this, which he really did not like, so he began harassing me online. After friends and I advertised a Separatist meeting on a local Lesbian list, he wrote a nasty email ridiculing Separatists and Never-het Lesbians. (We hadn’t referred to Never-het Lesbians in our notice, but he’s particularly threatened that I’ve chosen to never be het, so goes out of his way to attack Never-het Lesbians. It’s very specific to me since few Lesbians use that term.) I responded by saying how he’s harassed me since I was a teenager, and got an angry response from his Lesbian supporters in my community. They accused me of “outing” him, even though he had already admitted to being a “transwoman” on his website, and, as another friend has said, “It’s no secret – just look at him!” (His supporters haven’t seemed to notice that each time I’ve been responding to something vicious he’s aimed at me and other radical Lesbians publicly.)

Elliott then became more bullying at the next open mic, as if trying to provoke me to react. He bellowed a “song” ridiculing short hair on Lesbians and saying how he likes long hair on women — like most female impersonators, he tries to look as feminine as possible. (Interesting that I’ve never yet seen a castrated man who looked remotely Butch.)

At the following open mic, he went over the line into verbally attacking me in a “song” in which he virtually named me, and did name my ex-lover, Martha. I had no close friends with me that night and had to quickly decide what to do. When it was my turn to read poetry, I defended myself, and discovered that Elliott had his support group of Lesbians ready, because as soon as I started with “I don’t like conflict, but believe in self defense…” they got up and walked out. One stayed to yell at me, correcting and reprimanding me each time I referred to him by male pronouns. That also made it difficult for anyone to hear what I was saying. The Lesbian who was in charge, as well as the owner of the space, banned both Elliott and me from performing for the rest of the season. It didn’t matter that he had attacked me and that I had defended myself. I’m sure if it had been a physical attack, I still would have been punished for being impolite and for not “taking the higher road.” (There was also obviously a cultural/class difference going on.)

Elliott and his supporters are all white and mostly middle class, with some identified as Feminists. My supporters (who I later told about it) are Separatists, Radical Lesbian Feminists, and completely apolitical non-Feminist Lesbians and women — most of who are poverty class or working class and racially and culturally diverse. (One sweetie even high-fived me and said “Congratulations, dude!” about having been banned.)

It was interesting for me to find out that my friends in the community who don’t identify as Feminists are also repulsed by him and don’t want to be around him. It seems that castrated men have so manipulated Feminist ideas that they get the more Feminist-identified to be their main supporters.

I then wrote Elliott, asking if he was deliberately lying about me or if he was confused. It was interesting to see exactly how he cons Lesbians. He began by threatening me that he would make more information about me public if I didn’t stop talking about him, so I asked what specifically that was, since there was nothing I was hiding. He didn’t know what to answer, so then insulted and ridiculed me and Separatism, saying that we had failed and that I’d been wasting my life as a Separatist, while he’d been doing important work for Lesbians. (This seems to be a common theme for female impersonators – to complain bitterly about how much they’ve done for Lesbians.) I answered that we had an international movement that was doing just fine in spite of men like him and that he had done a lot of harm to Lesbians. So then he tried his usual line, about how he had felt like a girl growing up. I said that wouldn’t work with me — I knew it was a lie because he would have told me when we were friends, and reminded him about his phallic poem. He denied it as well as denying his racist letter to the Bay Times, in strange, almost legalistic language – something like “I do not admit to those.” When I told him I had copies of both, he really lost it, and, after more ranting, tried pity, saying he was a “freak.”

Elliott chose to do what he did. Many people who’ve had extreme plastic surgery later regret it. But he still has access to women and Lesbians that most men never get. And he has the pleasure of watching so many Lesbians fight over him, and attack other Lesbians on his behalf.

It was exhausting and horrible to be baited, taunted, and insulted, but I do know that bullies are cowards. And I did get to tell him that he can never have what he and other  men claiming to be Lesbians are trying so hard to get — which is to have sex with a Lesbian – because once a woman is with them, she is no longer a Lesbian. And, of course, only the most self-hating of women would choose such men – which may be why I never see him involved with anyone. Even most liberal mainstream-minded and/or self-hating Lesbians won’t go that far. The women who seem the most often to be with female impersonators are the wives they were already in het marriages with before they decided to “transition.”

Elliott is just one example that I can write about personally because of knowing him clearly before it ever entered his mind to identify as a Lesbian. Now, after almost 40 years of posing as a Lesbian, he still doesn’t seem the slightest bit less male or remotely female. Not many Lesbians can say they know for certain these men are simply lying. And I don’t see other female impersonators acting any differently. At one Lesbian event, a castrated man reached out to smack a friend of mine on the butt as she walked by. She didn’t know him. What made him that confident and arrogant, if not male privilege? I have never seen a Lesbian do that. A friend who knows him says he’s groped her and tried to kiss her whenever he has a chance. He has a wife who he married when he still identified as a man, and told my friend what he hasn’t told his wife — that he frequently likes to go out and pay undocumented workers to fuck him.

I have friends in other countries who’ve seen identical patterns. My dear friend, Katinka, in Sweden wrote about how she counters charges of “transphobia:”

“The word phobia means ‘irrational fear’. My fear of “MTF transsexuals” is not irrational — it’s well-founded and justified. That fear is political (they destroy lesbian feminist politics and community) and physical (like other men they are physically violent and can be sexually abusive and intimidating). I also have a feminist critique of them and the transsexual movement (a conservative, anti-feminist movement). Having a lesbian feminist analysis and critique of castrated men and their movement is not the same being “phobic.”  

A disturbing trend is that in countries where castrated men are accepted as women, they’re raising the statistics on inter-Lesbian domestic violence.

Then there are the worst kind of men who are insisting the government pay for their sex change operations – like the neo-Nazi murderer on death row. 7

Recently, a friend started a thread on Facebook about the harm femininity does to females. Of course a man (who calls himself “Sarah),” had to intrude to lecture us that “Some women have penises,” and he kept interjecting the word “penis” into this Feminist discussion. Again, it would be almost laughable if it wasn’t for the harm these men do. This is the same mentality behind the groups of men who identify as women sneaking into the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival and then running to the showers to take off their clothes and expose their pricks to women and girls.  Again, what do you call a man who refuses to take “No” for an answer?”

   RAPE BY DECEIT

Men who posture as Lesbians seem to love the idea that they can con real Lesbians.  But even those who have enough privilege to pay for extensive surgery to alter their bone structure forget that being female and Lesbian is about far more than our bodies – who we are is our essence, our minds, hearts, and spirits.  Males are just different.  No matter what the disguise is, we’ll be able to notice what’s missing – the warmth and heart of what a true female and real Lesbian is.

But how obsessed they are with conning us is revealing. So I want to ask, if they ever are able to trick a woman into being sexual with them, isn’t that a form of rape by deceit? They clearly are obsessed with tricking us. Whenever Lesbians talk online about castrated and female impersonators, there are revealing responses from the men who insist on forcing us to relate to them, even online. When some of us wrote that we could of course tell any kind of man from a Lesbian, this is what one castrated man said:

“Well, after 6 months I haven’t been kicked out of the ‘Women born women’ book club meeting that I attend every month, so clearly my sneaky thievery of the truth from the clueless lesbians has been all too successful.”

It doesn’t seem to occur to him that of course they know but are typically tolerating him, the way Lesbians do, to not embarrass him or hurt his feelings. And of course, all girls and women are trained to accept and try to ignore all the ways that boys and men intrude on our space, which males know very well since that’s one of the ways they use patriarchal conditioning to maneuver girls and women into situations where they molest and rape us. This man of course shows no concern for that fact that by inserting himself where he’s not wanted, he’s destroyed that women-only space and is likely to have driven some real Lesbians away.  This is what a friend wrote about her experience with a similar situation:

“When I first came out (in my mid-forties), I wanted to find some other Lesbians–I didn’t know any, at all. The timing coincided with the advent of the Internet, and so I was able to find a “Lesbian support group” near my home.  When I showed up, I found a small group, comprised of a male in drag, and about 3 Lesbians, who seemed comfortable around him.  All I remember about that night was that he held forth during the entire meeting, and in fact I left early, and never returned.  This experience delayed my finding Lesbians, when I really wanted some Lesbian friends.

Once I started meeting Lesbians, one of my new acquaintances, a Separatist, introduced me to Radical Feminism, which was all new to me.  I started voraciously reading books and blogs, and I also joined a Radical Feminism listserv, which was international.  This online group had been created by, and was moderated by, someone who, I learned much later, is a castrated male.  This person put himself across as extremely female, including talking about “her” life as a little girl. I remember once saying something about men “mutilating” their bodies trying to think of themselves as female, and he quickly retorted that one should be careful using that word because it might have unwanted implications for pro-abortion arguments.  I didn’t know enough then to counter it, and trusted “her,” still feeling I didn’t know much.

At some point, after months, this person, in a private e-mail, told me of “her” “birth defect” which had been surgically corrected when “she” was 18.  I asked if “she” was born intersex.  His reply was “no.”  Then I knew, and was shocked.  He then went on to explain himself in this way, “If you and I were to make love, you would not be able to tell anything different about my body from your own.”  I experienced that as predatory, though it took me some time to name it that.  My misguided desire to be compassionate served to extend our interaction over the next few months, unfortunately, but then I ceased communication with him.

“She” then started a sexual relationship with a very young Radical Feminist Lesbian on this listserv.  The age difference between them is about 40 years.  Though the younger Lesbian was an adult, it was wrong, since there was such a power imbalance between them. The relationship didn’t last more than a few months.

He then started writing me privately about his suicidal intentions, appealing to my sympathy.  I mistakenly allowed him to continue in this vein, in which he tried to get me to drive to his state to pick up his large collection of Radical Feminist books (which he offered to me, knowing it was a big draw for me).  I offered to reimburse him to ship them to me, but I was adamant that I would not go there.  At that point he stopped trying, and, of course, never killed himself, nor sent me any books.

Another castrated man bragged:

“We do walk amongst you. No doubt you’ve been obliviously naked around a transwoman or shared the same bathroom with one. And probably more than once. I only ‘revel in deception’ because it irks you so; you claim that you can categorically always tell who is trans cuz they’re all old men in dresses with kids and a wife, but quietly freak out at the suggestion that there are invisible, passable trans women out there who share your spaces.

I revel in pointing out the inconsistencies in your arguments. It’s…fun I’m going to the toilet now; a female public toilet. THERE! I just raped you! Did you feel it?

That aside, I regret to inform you that I use female bathrooms to… *Drumroll* Pee, poop and to dispose of sanitary pads. And sometimes masturbate to the sound of other women peeing. I joke. Everything but the last part. ”

Does that sound even remotely like any woman you’ve ever known?  Does that sound like anyone who at all cares that most women and girls are sexually assaulted at least once in our lives?  Few women joke about rape.

THE ILLOGICAL CONCLUSION — “Trans-paraplegia”

If you believe the con that a man is a Lesbian because he feels like one, then shouldn’t that hold true for other obsessions that men have?  What about the man who claims to be a disabled paraplegic Lesbian, though he of course is an able-bodied man?  Does it get creepier than this?  He fondled his aunt’s leg braces when a boy (and we can only imagine what else he did with them.)  He fetishized her and her disability, and now goes around wearing leg braces and using a wheelchair, in between hiking and posting on television to tell his story as a “disabled woman.”

When I first saw him on the National Geographic channel, I was certain he was a man, and yes, I was right. He pretends to be a Lesbian as well as pretending to be paraplegic. He goes to his local Dyke March in a wheelchair with a sign saying “Differently-Abled Dyke.” For fun, he makes his wheelchair fall over, to get Lesbians’ sympathy and attention. He also uses disabled services, asks people to help him in stores, asks co-workers for help, etc. When he “came out” to a co-worker as not really being disabled, the man looked like he wanted to kill him, but obviously had less power than “Chloe.” Here is the post Gallus Mag did about him at her brilliant blog, which every trans cult supporter should read:

 GenderTrender

National Geographic’s “Taboo” : Fake paraplegic Chloe Jennings-White

February 1, 2012

Someone dropped me a line about a show they saw on the National Geographic Channel this week called “Taboo: Secret Lives”. I’ve never seen the show, but apparently they featured a woman who “had a secret”, and the secret was that she was a fake paraplegic. That’s right! The woman went around in a wheelchair pretending to have a spinal injury- fooling everyone. The woman who contacted me just couldn’t believe that a female would do such a thing. She was certain that the woman (although they never mentioned it on the show) must be a male transgender. And she was right.

The copy from the National Geographic website reads:

Chloe Jennings-White leads a double life. A Ph.D chemist in Salt Lake City, Utah, Chloe lives as a paraplegic in a wheelchair. For the most part, people believe that Chloe is unable to walk, but she has a shocking secret. Chloe isn’t paraplegic at all.  She is not a paraplegic, but chooses to live as one.”

What they fail to mention is that he is also a man who “chooses to live as” a woman, as well as pretending to be paraplegic.

According to the LATimes he was Clive Jennings-White up until at least 2003, a PHD in organic chemistry working for Pherin and Realm Pharmaceuticals at the time, both pheromone companies, and holder of multiple pharmaceutical patents, mostly artificial pheromones.

Now working at Human Pheromone Sciences Inc in Salt Lake City Utah , a phermone marketer. He also claims to be employed and have his own laboratory and office at the University of Utah Neuropsychiatric Institute, in the ECT wing.

He was born in 1955 and grew up in England, obtaining a doctorate from Cambridge, was a married hetero male and father to two sons. Became a Fullbright Scholar and post-doctoral fellow at Stanford and did research at the University of Utah Department of Psychiatry (!).

Not only that, but when he is not busy posting crazy-ass videos of his fake lesbian significant-other Danielle Sainte-Marie (also a transgender male) and faking paraplegia and disability he is an extensive mountain climber and hiker:  http://www.peakbagger.com/climber/ClimbListC.aspx?cid=4163

Cancer survivor and disability activist blogger Sara K. at Ready Pink and Able (unaware that Chloe is actually male) writes:

“Why haven’t doctors put her on psych meds?  She is completely delusional.  I know, she has BIID.  Does this mean, we just accept her fraud?  If I expressed a desire to be an African American, no doctor would find it appropriate to counsel me to walk around in “black face”.  Why is it that Chloe gets the benefit of a disorder with which to label herself???  Where is the outrage?  Am I the only one who feels ill at the very thought of this woman and her deception?  We all scream for blood when we find that someone fakes a cancer diagnosis!  That’s horrible…just disgusting.  Somehow this woman has gotten a pass because she has a disorder.  I am sick with anxiety and anger.  I really am sick.  I have participated in autopsies and multiple bloody patient encounters which didn’t make me ill.  I have performed incision and drainage procedures which included copious amounts of pus.  None of it caused me to vomit. However, this story caused my chest to tighten, breath to quicken, and my stomach to churn with an unbelievable ferocity.  The anxiety that remains, even now, is so strong that I can only hope for recovery.  My outrage may live for a while in this case.  Does anyone blame me?  Frankly, I don’t care…I’m not even attempting to veil my feelings here.”

On the Transabled.org website Chloe describes his dream of becoming genuinely disabled as a form of “transition”. His partner Danielle aka Alicia (because just one fake persona is never enough apparently) posts in the same thread to a guy who describes seeking a back alley surgeon that will “snip” his spine: “Much support to you as you move towards authenticity!”- using the identical language adopted by the transgenderist movement.

Not only that but Chloe brags about how he got a physician to write a letter authorizing him to get a handicapped parking space even though the doctor knows he is not handicapped, and he instructs the others on how they can do the same, the better to enjoy taking handicapped parking spaces from genuinely handicapped people.

Some threads on Chloe from a Spinal Injury Forum:

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=176092

http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/showthread.php?t=175081

(sample comment: “I feel like someone needs to break her neck.”)

Presumably Chloe was able to stop the National Geographic from mentioning his recent “Gender Transition” in the show featuring his emerging “Transabled Transition” as a condition of his appearance. Which is unfortunate for a couple of reasons. First of all, there is a strong correlation between Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID)- the urge to pretend one is, or fantasize about actually becoming handicapped- and transgenderism.

In fact, researchers who have formerly studied Gender Identity Disorder (before the transgender political lobby began to stifle alternative treatment research) are now studying BIID in hope that the science will support non-invasive treatments for all forms of bodily identity disorder.

From this Newsweek article on BIID:

“Some conservative voices in the medical community feel that the normalization of sex-change surgeries was the start of a slippery slope. “You keep pushing the envelope of impaired people who aren’t in touch with reality in some fashion, who develop ideas about their normalcy,” says Dr. Mark Schiller, a psychiatrist and past president of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. “Essentially from just claiming that something’s the case, people just accept somebody’s distorted version of reality and then we get surgeons and others responding to the point of mangling normal bodies.”

The second reason it is unfortunate the show failed to mention the fact that Chloe is male is that this is yet another instance where outrageous male behavior is being reported as female behavior.  As I said before, when a “woman” was reported to be living her life as an “adult baby”, messing herself and selling porn about it (and “she” turned out to be a dude): when you hear about a female doing something really wack, or read about it in a newspaper or on a website, and it just “doesn’t sound right” to you: It’s probably a male transgender.

IN CONCLUSION

If you love Lesbians and women, please don’t help these men get what they want. Stop participating in supporting their narcissism and selfishness, and please instead help the Lesbians and women they are hurting. PLEASE do not participate in defining us out of existence.  Don’t support castrated men and other female impersonators against us in any way, including letting yourself be bullied into using our female names or pronouns for them. Know that whenever you don’t object to these men, you’re participating it making the space or event not safe for Lesbians and women, on behalf of men. They have the rest of the world, as well as the entire “LGBTQUERTY” community that is far more welcoming of them than they are of Lesbians.

Endnotes

1. I first wrote about castrated men invading our communities in “Dykes and Gorgons,” in 1973. Part of that was reprinted as our Gutter Dyke collective writings in the Separatists anthology, “For Lesbians Only,” edited by Julia Penelope and Sarah Hoagland. 2. From Gallus Mag’s blog GenderTrender – she continues wonderful postings in defense of Lesbians:  “NHS [National Health Service, England] determines Breast Implants are “medically necessary”: But Only for Men.” http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1343025/Transsexual-refused-8-000-breasts-NHS-AFTER-60-000-gender-swap-surgery-wins-court-battle.html is hard to believe. A man who wanted breast implants received over $15,000 in free legal aid to force his shared primary care trust provider to divert $12,000 from cancer patients to pay for his breast augmentation. And he WON. He will now get the larger fake breasts he wanted, paid for by taxpayers. On Gallus Mag’s blog, GenderTrender“Transwoman” fights for experience of living in all-girls dorm A 51 year old male Navy vet, John Brigman, now calling himself Jennifer Gellar, decided to change his legal sex so he could live in the only all-girl dorm on the South West Texas Junior College Ulvade campus. Although he has a home in Ulvade, he wants to ‘experience dorm life’ in the only female dorm on campus. Gellar had a harassment complaint filed with police against him last march by one of the female students. The teenage girls in the dorm are frightened, saying ‘You have to kind of trust who your roommate is if you want to stay in that dorm, and I really don’t trust her. It’s not even about gender. She’s built like a man so automatically he’s going to be stronger than any of us.’ He says ‘I’m just wishing that people would accept me for who I am.'” January 15, 2011

On  Lesbians Are WOMEN!,  Gallus Mag tells us how the National Center for Lesbian Rights (NCLR) works AGAINST, rather than for Lesbians, betraying us: “Is THAT a picture of a lesbian?

THAT is a picture of a mass murderer. His name is Richard Speck. He murdered eight nurses. In prison he claimed he had turned transgender and was “actually” a female. He wanted a “sex change”. How high on a list of LESBIAN Priorities should Richard Speck’s desire for a taxpayer funded sex change be? How important is it to YOU, as a LESBIAN, that this mass murderer gets a free sex change? Would you donate funds to help him do so? Would you want a major LESBIAN organization to make his desires a PRIORITY? Would you want an organization to do so while claiming to represent LESBIANS? Well the National Center for Lesbian Rights (NCLR) has made it a priority. A LESBIAN priority that criminals like Speck have a CIVIL RIGHT to taxpayer funded gender reassignment, even if they have NEVER expressed a transgender urge prior to their incarceration. And this is a priority for a Lesbian WOMEN’s organization WHY exactly? What ARE the priorities of the National Center for Lesbian Rights? Here is a list of all active pending cases on the NCLR case docket posted on their website, as I understand them: -an amicus brief submitted in a lesbian case challenging Florida’s ban on adoption by lesbians and gays. (The case was represented by pro-bono attorneys, not NCLR, so here the NCLR submitted a brief in a case relating to an actual lesbian, not a case they represented however.) -Lawsuit filed to force prisons to provide incarcerated trans criminals taxpayer funded hormones and surgery. Free sex changes for incarcerated transgender people who “come out” after incarceration. As wards of the state, convicted criminals should be entitled to taxpayer funded hormones and surgeries that are not provided for law abiding citizens. -Lawsuit filed claiming heterosexuals are being discriminated against, by being excluded from gay men’s softball leagues. Seriously. This is who the NCLR is representing. Can’t make this shit up. -amicus brief filed in case of Egyptian gay man seeking asylum from anti-gay mistreatment in a country where gay men can be arrested for homosexuality. -asylum case for Mexican transgender identified person who received alleged harassment because of claiming to be a sex incongruent with that on birth certificate. -asylum case for gay Pakistani male. -amicus brief filed in case of Pakistani hetero male who alleges he was detained by the FBI due to religious profiling of muslims in terrorism investigations. -assisting a pro bono attorney who is representing an asylum case for Bosnian lesbian. -lawsuit against Cherokee Nation representing lesbian married couple. -asylum for another Mexican transgender person. That’s it. As I understand it those are the open pending cases represented by the NCLR. Well what else do they do? NCLR Sports Project issued a report in 2010 warning that women’s sports teams discriminate against males and that failure to permit males to compete against females in female sports may result in “costly litigation”. The NCLR press report was issued in October when a 57 year-old male who beat out all the female competitors (average age 30) to win the women’s world championship for long-drive golf sued the LPGA for his “right” to compete against women. The NCLR supported this action and does so by misrepresenting themselves as being a lesbian WOMEN organization. The NCLR appears to believe that women’s sports leagues infringe on the CIVIL RIGHTS of males. The 57 year-old male may be the first competitor in history to embark on a new professional sports career at such an advanced age. It’s hard to IMAGINE that a lesbian rights organization would make the rights of males to play women’s sports their highest priority, much less the “rights” of male criminals to receive taxpayer funded sex changes, or the “rights” of heterosexuals to play on gay softball leagues, but this is what the NCLR is concerned with. Only three of the ten active pending lawsuits listed on the NCLR website concern lesbians, and two of them are not actually being represented by the NCLR. So, one out of ten.  Three transgender cases (two male one female), two gay male, two hetero male. It’s time for the National Center for “Lesbian” Rights to change their name to better reflect their priorities. “National Center for MALE Rights”?  “National Center for Queer Rights” perhaps? After all, the ex-lesbian legal director of NCLR  has stated “…there is a community of lesbians and transmen who are just kind of merging into one social group…”. NCLR seems to believe that the concerns and priorities of lesbians (who are women) are indistinct from the concerns and priorities of men (the legal director considers herself a man, so that may explain her male-centrism and misogyny). Like many transgender persons the legal director seems to believe that all discrimination against gays and lesbians is due to their perceived gender-nonconformity, and therefore the concerns of the LGB can be subsumed, borg-like, by the transgender political movement. What such a philosophy fails to take into account is that……wait for it…..Lesbians are WOMEN.  Political objectives and legal priorities for WOMEN are entirely different- and often at odds with- those of MEN. So if anyone wrote out a year-end donation to the NCLR- quick put a stop payment on it. Don’t support an organization that colonizes lesbians and takes our money and works for the “rights” of Richard Speck, and straight men, and males who want to start professional sports careers at the age of 57 in women’s leagues. And don’t buy the women’s underwear that NCLR sells to raise funds. And tell ALL your friends and neighbors how the NCLR does NOT represent your LESBIAN interests. 3. Gallus Mag’s GenderTrender showed the YouTube video from Jerry Springer’s show, quote from Jerry: Sandra is a transsexual, who cut off her own legs with a saw over 6 years ago because she decided she no longer wanted them. Sandra said she decided at the age of 14 that it never felt right to have legs, and finally took action to get rid of them. http://youtu.be/DA43D The second video is a follow-up show where Wendell (“Sandra”) is confronted by his ex-wife for how his selfishness affected her and their children. http://youtu.be/p3xQPPy9tMY 4. Janice Raymond’s “The Transsexual Empire” is still an excellent resource about castrated men. It’s criticized as “old information,” but since it’s true, it’s a classic.  Castrated men and their supporters hate it of course. From Gallus Mag’s GenderTrender, which also show what being female means to these men — just disconnected, grotesque, imitation body part, as if from butchered women: Crossdressing and Sex Prosthetics Approved for Transgender UK Prisoners

March 16, 2011

A 20 page guidebook on transgender prisoners was issued to wardens across the UK last week. As a result of the UK’s Gender Recognition Act the Ministry of Justice’s guidelines state “An establishment must permit prisoners who consider themselves transsexual and wish to begin gender reassignment to live permanently in their acquired gender.” Unlike other prisoners who must wear prison uniforms, self-identified transgenders may wear their own clothes, and will be given access to prosthetics, devices, and gendered street clothes used to disguise their physical sex. Males who want to must be referred to as “miss” or “ma’am” and be called by a fake name of their choosing. These new guidelines apply to transgendered who have not been issued a “Gender Recognition Certificate” by the government but to those who remain legally regarded as their actual physical sex. Male murderers and rapists who wish to “become women” are already provided with state paid Gender Reassignment Surgery and then transferred to women’s prisons, regardless of concerns for those women’s safety. In at least one case, a man in prison for kidnapping and attempted murder of a woman received a taxpayer funded sex change, transferred to a woman’s prison, then after a few years demanded a reverse-sex-change back to male, also taxpayer funded. I was unable to locate records of any “female to male” transgenders fighting for transfer to the male prison of their chosen gender. Presumably this is because females who want to be male decide to avoid placement with their brethren because the male prison population (like all male populations) is far more violent than the female one. Instead of standard uniforms, inmates who wish to transgender may wear high heels, lingerie, dresses, wigs, make-up, nail polish, suits and ties, and other body coverings as well as complex prosthetic devices. The new guidelines are being heralded by trans-activists as a new era in gender rights, and one beneficial to many transgenders who undergo incarceration in much higher rates than the general public. According to one US source, “Sixty-five percent of male-to-female (MtF) transgender people have spent time in prison or jail, as well as 29 percent of people who identify as female-to-male (FtM)—rates far above that of the general population.”

Sheila Jeffries has also written excellent books referring to castrated men. “Unpacking Queer Politics” has great support for Lesbians. 5. Information about Iran’s support of sex change came from a BBC News story by Vanessa Barford —  “Iran’s Diagnosed Transsexuals” — and “Transsexual in Iran,” from the original film, “Be Like Others,” directed by Tanaz Eshaghian, and broadcast on BBC television in 2008. Below are excerpts from the article: “Homosexual relationships are banned in Iran, but the country allows sex change operations and hundreds of men have elected for surgery to change their lives.” “Diagnosed transsexuals” “Sex changes have been legal in Iran since Ayatollah Khomeini, the spiritual leader of the 1979 Islamic revolution, passed a fatwa – a religious edict – authorising them for “diagnosed transsexuals” 25 years ago. Today, Iran carries out more sex change operations than any other nation in the world except for Thailand. The government even provides up to half the cost for those needing financial assistance and a sex change is recognised on your birth certificate. ‘Islam has a cure for people suffering from this problem. If they want to change their gender, the path is open,’ says Hojatol Islam Muhammad Mehdi Kariminia, the religious cleric responsible for gender reassignment. He says an operation is no more a sin than ‘changing wheat to flour to bread,’ Yet homosexuality is still punishable by death. ‘The discussion is fundamentally separate from a discussion regarding homosexuals. Absolutely not related. Homosexuals are doing something unnatural and against religion,’ says Kariminia. ‘It is clearly stated in our Islamic law that such behaviour is not allowed because it disrupts the social order.’” 6. Gallus Mag’s done it again. In her blog posting, “Injustice at Every Turn,” she documents their incessant complaining. One even said he hates little girls because he’s been “deprived” of his girlhood, and then describes a completely male fantasy of what a girl’s childhood is. Transgender males feel victimized by females who choose to congregate among themselves. http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/11968 They feel victimized when they are forced to cover up their breast implants in public like females.  http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/national/police-reportedly-ask-transgender-topless-sunbathers-men-to-put-tops-back-on-060110 Transgender male criminals- including rapists and murderers- feel victimized when they are not incarcerated in women’s prisons.   http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23740460-transsexual-killer-can-go-to-womens-jail.do They feel victimized by those who don’t want to have sex with them.  http://community.feministing.com/2010/07/18/i-wouldnt-fuck-a-trans-person/ They feel victimized by little girls, “seething with anger” at little girls in public.   http://www.bilerico.com/2011/02/give_me_back_my_girlhood.php They feel discriminated against when national health insurance won’t pay for their breast implants.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1343025/Transsexuals-fight-implants-lands-taxpayer-18-000.html They feel discriminated against when they can’t live with teenaged girls in dorm rooms. http://www.dallasvoice.com/watch-transgender-woman-sparks-uproar-moving-allgirls-dorm-texas-1060957.html They feel discriminated against by journalists that refer to them by pronouns that accurately report their sex   http://transequality.org/media.html They feel victimized by “male exclusion” at women’s colleges.   https://floodsrollback.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/womens-college-without-boys/ 57 year old males feel discriminated against when they want to start a late-in-life professional sports career in female sports   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwNMzlp0CJM 7. In Leslie Feinberg’s moving novel, “Stone Butch Blues,” she describes graphically the rapes and torture of Butches by men, and how men would invade Lesbian bars to have access to Lesbians. Yet, she supports female impersonators to do just that, at Michigan and elsewhere. It’s a shame that she doesn’t see the parallels. 8.  http://off2dr.com/modules/extcal/event.php?event=370 “Execution for Nazi-loving Cleveland murderer can move forward, despite his lawyer’s ‘outrageous’ representation.”Published: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 6:48 Frank Spisak testifies in his own defense in Cuyahoga County Common Pleas court In on July 5, 1983. WASHINGTON — U.S. Supreme Court justices made clear Tuesday that they unanimously agree with the collective judgment of the Cleveland community: Frank Spisak, the Hitler-loving triple murderer who terrorized Cleveland State University, was one demented guy — one whose attempted legal defenses have finally failed. The high court overruled appellate judges who had saved Spisak, a former cross-dresser who fashioned himself as a modern-day Nazi, from death for his 1982 killing spree….Yet the high court refused to overturn Spisak’s death penalty on that basis. Instead, it ruled that the totality of Spisak’s actions — not only his murder spree but his Nazi salute and “Heil Hitler” remarks and lack of remorse — provided the jury with ample grounds on which to recommend a death sentence. Between February and August 1982, Spisak shot and killed three people at CSU — the Rev. Horace Rickerson; CSU student Brian Warford; and Timothy Sheehan, CSU’s assistant superintendent for buildings and grounds. He tried to kill two others, saying he did it because he was a follower of Adolf Hitler and was in a war for survival “of the Aryan people,” according to court records. Frank Spisak, who calls himself “Miss Frances Anne Spisak,” said on  April 08, 2006: I AM NOT A MAN! I am not a man! I reiterate: I am a girl and I want to be recognized as one!! The state of Ohio is FORCING me, against my will, to remain transsexual. Prison officials refuse to provide me with the medical treatment I need to become a woman! Ohio is withholding female hormones from me, and denying me the surgery needed to correct my disorder. Ohio is forcing me to be masculine in appearance and gender. I am being deprived of autonomy and my rights as a United States citizen! I have first amendment rights to be a woman!    I am one of society’s forgotten misfits, thrown into one of the largest successful businesses in America today: the prison system. As I understand it, when persons are sent to prison, that’s the punishment. We are not sent here to be abused, but many of us are, daily. Oppression of any kind is a mockery of our most fundamental American beliefs, and values about freedom and the dignity of other human beings. I am in a continual battle for my rights to be a woman, and for my rights and dignity as a human being. Things are rough here since I am the only transsexual out of almost 200 prisoners on the all male death row in Ohio. I may be the only transsexual incarcerated in any Ohio prison. The prison system in Ohio is almost totally unprepared to deal with me. I stick out because I’m soft and effeminate. The male/female relationship in prison isn’t similar to the way it is on the outside. Here, if you are feminine–i.e., don’t resist a male’s sexual advances–you become his slave(wife, punk) and are stripped naked. Everything you own belongs to him, from the clothes you wear to who you hang around with, if he chooses to make an issue of it. Is is commonly believed, by male convicts, that a “woman” is supposed to act a certain way: like a slave. For instance, she must be submissive to all MEN, and stay out of controversies between two MEN. If you disobey a MAN, you may be physically brutalized. Women are called “bitches” or “whores.” To a certain extent the prison system supports and encourages these attitudes because it helps prison officials maintain authority and savage control. It also excites some.  The savage irony underlying my convictions and punishment is that the court which sentenced me to death, and the rest of society do not know the “real me” and retain only the false impression of a die-hard savage neo-Nazi gunman, generated at my trial in 1983. Because of my active mental illness at that time(and the great conflict I was experiencing over my transsexuality) I was unable to reveal to others that I am a woman trapped inside a man’s body(i.e., at my trial I wore a moustache!). I was also unable to establish that I have a psychiatric disorder, and was insane at the time of the crimes. I do not state all this because I believe my mental illness entitles me to a “good citizenship award” for killing three people for no reason. On the contrary, mental illness is not a license to kill or an excuse to commit murder, but rather it is a reason to afford the afflicted person with the medical treatment for the illness, rather than criminal punishment for the acts. At the very least, my citizenship in a civilized state should entitle me to a trip to the hospital so the state can operate on me, and surgically correct me. In 1983 I was so mentally ill that being branded publicly as a racist neo-Nazi seemed wonderful in comparison with the humiliations and treatment I imagined I might have received if I openly admitted transsexuality! (note: my ancestry is Semitic). Incarceration, for the past 16 years, in the brutal and sadistic all male prison invironment into which I’ve been unwillingly thrust, has cured me of all delusions! I’ve gained mental health and attained competency and am now putting together a lawsuit against prison officials in Ohio because I wish to obtain female sex hormones and a penectomy (surgical removal of the penis, testicles, and castration), which I NEED to become female and are medically necessary in my case! The ACLU has informed me they cannot help me in a lawsuit because of the amount of work they are already doing in a suit against the prison(i.e., fighting for death row inmates’ rights to say their last words aloud before being executed). The state of Ohio wants to take away that right by making the condemned record his or her last words on a small 3×5 index card prior to being executed, and then give the warden the discretion to read all, part, or none of it to the press after the inmate’s death.  Because I’m still under sentence of death, this letter represents, in a sense, my last words. I may not get other opportunities to speak before I die. Perhaps there is someone out there who would care to correspond with me, who can offer help, advice and maybe even friendship or affection, if they are not extinct commodities. Hell, I’ll even settle for postcards with dirty jokes!    Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. I need contacts with lawyers, organizations, or people who are concerned enough to help. I am one desolate, desperate, and oppressed transsexual in bondage – seeking freedom and release! I am seeking assistance from anyone who will help me fight for dignity and my right to live and be a WOMAN. P.S. I am permitted to receive one embossed envelope, per letter, for return postage purposes to write back to persons outside(NO STAMPS permitted!) All persons writing to me and seeking replies should kindly enclose an embossed envelope for postage(I am very poor). UPDATE 12/28/00 Miss Frances Anne files lawsuit, and seeks $250,000 Contrary to what some of my critics say, the lawsuit I’ve filed, especially regarding my “serious medical condition” and NEED for treatment, is not a frivolous lawsuit! It has been clearly established by Federal law in four U.S. circuits since 1992(including the 6th Circuit in Ohio) and the District of Columbia, that transsexualism is a serious medical condition for which a transsexual prisoner is entitled to receive treatment while incarcerated. No Circuit Court anywhere in the United States has reached a contrary conclusion. Because transsexualism is a serious medical condition for which a transsexual prisoner is entitled to receive medical treatment while incarcerated in a prison, deliberate indifference by prison officials to a transsexual prisoner’s need for treatment violates the 8th amendment – prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment – pursuant to the United States Supreme Court’s ruling in a previous case. Ohio prison officials have been deliberately indifferent to my serious medical needs. I have repeatedly asked the Department of Rehabilitation and Correction officials to allow me to have an operation to make me into a woman, or to give me treatments with female hormones. All my requests have been denied. In my lawsuit, I assert that I have a fundamental (and absolute) First Amendment U.S. Constitutional right to become and be a WOMAN. (i.e., the right of AUTOMONY: right of autonomous control over the development and expression of one’s personality, intellect, interests and tastes). Right of autonomy is “absolute, permitting no exceptions,” and one of the chief distinctions which sets the United States of America apart from totalitarian regimes. I also raise legal claim that I have a First Amendment U.S. Constitutional right to estrogen and a sex-change operation, because such medical treatment is medically necessary for me to become a woman: a transsexual, like myself, cannot exercise her First Amendment rights to be a woman, nor become a woman, without these medical necessities! My lawsuit also states that I’ve been PHYSICALLY INJURED by prison official’s refusal to provide me with male hormones and sex-conversion surgery in prison. Furthermore, I declare that I am suffering intense psychological PAIN daily because of the extreme discomfort I feel with the male anatomy and the inappropriateness of the masculine identity and role I’ve been forced to assume, and am expected to conform to by placement in the repressive and hostile all male prison environment into which I have been unwillingly thrust, and where I’m not free to express my soul and human spirit, nor free to end my quest for self-realization and attain self-respect and peace of soul by becoming a woman. I am seeking a declaratory judgment that the acts, policies and practices of prison officials by denying me medical treatment necessary to become a woman violates my right under the United States Constitution, and I am requesting a preliminary and permanent injunction which will require them to change my name on their records and identify me as MISS FRANCES ANNE SPISAK, and require them to provide hormone therapy(estrogen) to me and hospitalization so that I can get surgery(castration and penectomy, etc.) to become a WOMAN while incarcerated. I am also seeking over $250,000 in damages(for pain, suffering, and mental cruelty to me). I have always believed that my crimes were more the result of my psychiatric disorder than anything else and, if provided the medical and surgical treatment I NEED to become a woman, that I can be rehabilitated sufficiently in a woman’s role and that I will pose no future danger to society if ever released at a later date. This type of medical treatment and rehabilitation is more scientific and more humane that the fate I’ve been facing for the past 17 years on death row: execution by electric chair or lethal injection. We need to leave these barbaric methods of punishment behind us, along with the 20th Century that is expiring and going into the ashcan of world history along with its historical legacies of two World Wars, racism, genocide, inequality, and the persecution of sexual minorities. MISS FRANCES ANNE SPISAK on death row in Ohio/U.S.A.    

About Bev Jo

I've been a Lesbian from my earliest memories and am proud to be a Lesbian. My life's work is defending Lesbian culture and existence against those who oppress us. Working-class, ex-catholic, mostly European-descent (with some Native American ancestry), from poverty class culture. Lifelong Lesbian, born near Cincinnati, Ohio in 1950. Became lovers with my first lover in 1968, became part of a Lesbian community in 1970, and became a Dyke Separatist in 1972. Worked on some of the earliest Lesbian Feminist projects, such as the Lesbian Feminist Conference in Berkeley in 1972, the newspaper “Dykes and Gorgons” in 1973, the women’s bookstore and Lesbian coffeehouse, and taught self defense to women and girls. Have published in several journals and anthologies, including “For Lesbians Only,” “Finding the Lesbians,” “Lesbian Friendships,” "Amazones d'Hier, Lesbiennes Aujourd'hui," “Mehr als das Herz Gebrochen,” the Journal for Lesbian Studies, Lesbian Ethics, and Sinister Wisdom. With Linda Strega and Ruston, co-wrote our book, “Dykes-Loving-Dykes: Dyke Separatist Politics for Lesbians Only” in 1990. Have been disabled since 1981 with ME/CFIDS (Myalgic Encephalomyelitis or Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome) or perhaps Lyme disease (who the hell knows) and MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.) I love nature and plants and animals -- and especially the animals who are feared and hated and killed by people who don't even know them, just as Lesbians are. I've learned to love rats especially, who I do not consider inferior to humans. I'm a spiritual atheist, but I've found out that there is definitely life after death because a little rat returned from the dead for three days to comfort us. These hated little animals are so kind and loving, and willing to die for someone they love. I say, in our fight to protect the earth -- distrust all "truths" we are taught by patriarchy. The true truth is often the opposite.
This entry was posted in Additional Radical Lesbian Feminist writings and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

173 Responses to DEFINING LESBIANS OUT OF EXISTENCE — “TRANSWOMEN” ARE SIMPLY MEN (And over 80% don’t even have surgery)

  1. Jane Hathaway says:

    Love your new blog—and love your voice!

    Like

  2. FAB Libber says:

    Brilliant article BevJo, so many points covered on the issue of lesbian-only and FAB-only spaces.
    Particularly on the sexual-fetish/sexual-access angle, an angle that is now collectively being explored in more depth, GallusMag has certainly contributed a lot in this regard.

    And I did get to tell him that he can never have what he and other men claiming to be Lesbians are trying so hard to get — which is to have sex with a Lesbian – because once a woman is with them, she is no longer a Lesbian.

    This is taking the male obsession with female virginity to new extremes, but that is what it is all about, the conquest – the trickery involved is gravy. Those dudes bragging about using women’s toilets too, that is what it is all about, their fetishes, their deceit. The more we look into their behaviour, their motivations, the more disturbing it truly becomes. The evidence of course, comes from their own words. They out themselves as not being FABs.

    I like what your Swedish friend said;
    “The word phobia means ‘irrational fear’. My fear of “MTF transsexuals” is not irrational — it’s well-founded and justified. […] Having a lesbian feminist analysis and critique of castrated men and their movement is not the same being “phobic.”

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thank you so much for the support. Yes, Gallus Mag has been contributing so much great information. These men’s own words reveal them.

      I know, it’s all so obviously male to those of us who they haven’t succeeded in conning and guilt-tripping. At so many Lesbian events, there are still men who come and leer at the Lesbians. I see these men doing the same thing except too many Lesbians accept them as Lesbians.

      What we really need is for more Lesbians and women to care about and protect us and our spaces instead of the men. So simple, but most will defend/protect men first.

      Like

  3. Pingback: More new discoveries! | twanzphobic since forever

  4. Bev Jo says:

    Thank you!

    Like

  5. Purplerage says:

    Hello Bev,

    This is such a powerful and deeply moving article and one that very much needed to be written. Hopefully far more (FAB) Lesbians will get to read your Lesbian-centered writings now!?

    In case you want to check out that Democracy Now show I referred to previously. It’s listed under past shows dated October 22nd, 2010 (Does Opposing ”Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” Bolster US Militarism? A Debate with Lt. Dan Choi and Queer Activist Mattilda Bernstein Sycamore).

    To quote Wikipedia: ” Regarding gender identity, Sycamore indentifies as genderqueer and refers to herself in the feminine singular (”she”).”

    You should have my email by now, sorry about that! I am noob to commenting, I feel totally computer iliterate and still find the whole internet thing very unnerving.

    All the best.

    Like

  6. Purplerage says:

    Proof that I may also be illiterate as well! I typed ”iliterate” instead of ”illiterate.”

    Like

  7. ALesbian says:

    I once dated an MTF who appeared not too male and I didn’t know. We dated for a few months and then “she” asked me to move in. I’ll tell you that male-crafted “vaginas” do not taste like real female vaginas due to the gel they use to keep their male-crafted “vaginia” lubricated. When questioning this before I found out, I was told “she” had dryness. When asked to move in, I was informed that “she” had been born male and had SRS. Talk about guilted into something. Of course, me being the kind Lesbian I was, I went ahead with the move in plans, against my better judgement. After a few months I moved out. I felt that I was living in a traditional male/female marriage, with me doing traditional work inside the home and the MTF doing typical guy stuff. I realized how sick the situation was and left. Now I am very cautious about who I date and get involved with. The other thing that bothered me a lot was the instance that “her” performance of traditional male work/guy stuff as a “woman” was truly a breakthrough. “She” only had access to the education and other opportunities because “she” had originally entered them as a man.

    Men penetrating women’s spaces as made up “women” are actually raping our community. I certainly felt raped by the MTF I dated because I certainly wouldn’t have gotten involved in the first place if I had known. I was just coming out and have learned since that this particular MTF preys upon women who are just coming out and especially young women in their early 20s even though this person is considerably older (think decades). It’s creepy beyond belief.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Oh that is so awful. I’ve wondered if anyone could be fooled. I would think we could tell by their eyes and their whole spirit, but so terrible to be conned and tricked like that. Such lying. Yes, it’s rape, personally and to us as a community. It’s terrible and so male and predatory.

      Like

      • ALesbian says:

        Bev Jo, you can bet that I can tell now. The hairs on the back of my neck rise. And there was something wrong, but I was so new to coming out that I didn’t know better. Upon escaping from that situation, a lot of little clues were evident but I missed them. I don’t miss them now. I just seem to know if I’m around MTFs. They insist that we can’t tell, but with a little education, we can. And once you know, you just know. And I know this MTF is still preying on women, because that’s what he does. But the womyn always wake up to it, but not after some emotional abuse is meted out.

        Like

        • Bev Jo says:

          It’s so terrible — reminds me of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Lesbians are so oppressed, on so many levels, and, no matter what we do, we still can’t get away from men. It’s good to spread the word about all the ones we know about, which I’ve done. Usually, Lesbians guess though. It’s more than appearance and the usual male aggression, though that’s there too. It’s the lack of female spirit, lack of presence, lack of, what some friends say….soul.

          Like

  8. WesternSea says:

    BevJo,

    I saw your URL in the Lesbian Connection, having just read your article there about transwomen and decided to check in. I’ve been reading your work since Dykes Loving Dykes and just want to thank you from the bottom of my lesbian heart for not giving up on us. This notion of men claiming to be women and hence lesbians has been making my stomach churn for 30 years now. Just as painful, if not more so, is the clueless support of these guys by lesbians, guilt-tripped yet again by misguided notions of fairness and cruelty into sacrificing their dignity and autonomy on the altar of male privilege and misogyny.

    There are so many awful examples, but I’ll share just one. I’m an incest survivor and for several years attended a support group for women at the NYC gay center. A couple of MTF “lesbians” started coming to the meetings. In addition to their palpable male physical presence in the room, which made the meetings feel very unsafe for those of us who had been assaulted by men, was their need to “share” by discussing times when, as men, they had abused women! Talk about destroying women’s healing space! Naturally, a conflict ensued among the membership whether to allow these dudes access to our space. In one of these groups we were able to vote the boys out by proclaiming it a women-born-women only meeting, but in the other meeting, an MTF was elected chair”person.” We now had a boy chairing a women-only incest survivor’s support group. Of course, I left, but many stayed. I’m aghast even now just thinking about it and the implications of it. Well, you address it all very clearly in your work.

    You also raise excellent points about the deep-seated misogyny that these men express against women who have no use for them. I recall one local MTF saying that the reason lesbians didn’t want him at a lesbian dance was because they were secretly attracted to him and wanted to suck his cock.

    Yeah, that must be it.

    Please keep up the struggle, BevJo. I only pray that some of the younger, queer-oriented women reacquaint themselves with certain core concepts of the world in which we live, such as the reality of patriarchy and how it perverts and destroys everything it touches, including our very dear and precious lesbian identities.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thank you so much. We’ve never met before? Yes, there are a lot of us trying to support Lesbians and female-only space. I will NEVER give up on Lesbians. I’ve found a whole online community which has been wonderful and an amazing local Lesbian community too. We’re going to put our entire book updated on my blog, with new chapters.

      Yes, the worst betrayal is by Lesbians supporting these men. It’s interesting that I’m finding older “feminists” are much more supportive of the men, while many younger non-feminist Lesbians instinctually don’t want to be around them. There are also some young (twenties) friends who are among the strongest Separatists I know. And then there’s our international community of all ages.

      That is so terrible about those men invading even your women-only support group. They actually talked about abusing women?!! I shouldn’t be surprised, but would love to include this in an update of my article/chapter. That’s great that you kept them out of the one group, but so typical that one got in charge of the other. They usually go for the power positions. They are so obvious, you can usually tell by their writing, if they write much.

      Oh that is so disgusting about that one thinking Lesbians were attracted to him. Their level of narcissism is amazing. Such arrogant pricks.

      Bev

      Like

      • WesternSea says:

        Arrogant pricks is correct. The degree of narcissism and lesbian hating in these guys is over the top, virulent, violent and hateful. So much for their deep, soulful female identities. I have SO MANY incidents stored in my head on this fascinating and vile subject. Here’s one more: at the same gay center I mention above (which I don’t go to anymore because it’s not lesbian friendly), a drag queen/MTF (not sure which) was putting on his make-up in the ladies room. I confronted him and told him to get out and go next door to the men’s room where he belonged. Of course he was furious and not a little embarrassed at being found out. He took a look at my companion, a fat butch with short hair, and yelled at us: “What do you mean? I’m more of a woman than she is! Look at her! She’s disgusting! She’s not a woman!” And there you have it. Could it be any clearer? Being a woman is not a biological fact, but a sexual-role stereotype that they can apply like mascara, and of course a fat butch does not qualify.

        No, Bev, we’ve never met, although I know that if we did we’d be buddies. It’s hopeful and heartening what you say about the younger dykes, because my probably incorrect and cynical view is that the younger ones have been brainwashed by gay male culture, post-modernism and the queer movement. And I’ve had the same experience as you: the lesbians my age (pushing 60) are largely bleeding hearts for the transsexual agenda and will throw lesbians under the bus to show how tolerant and progressive they are.

        I do believe, given the way historical cycles and trends go, that lesbians will have no choice but to eventually come back to a woman-centered position, because anything else ultimately leads to our selling ourselves out and disappearing ourselves.

        And so it goes…Best to you, Bev.

        Like

        • Bev Jo says:

          Best to you too. I do think you’re right because it’s becoming more and more obvious how male these men are. It’s interesting that if there aren’t politics (taken from us) to be used to guilt-trip, Lesbians just don’t want anything to do with them. That is so disgusting what that man did to your friend. Butch is the real female, the closest to natural. And they are the furthest from female they can get.

          It can be hard to tell, but we are increasing. Lots of love….

          Like

  9. billyo says:

    all lesbians will hopefully die soon.

    Like

  10. mickeyb says:

    i agree that lesbians are low life piece of garbage. they should all burn in hell. they are the reason that nice guys like me are having a hard time finding a normal one to be with.

    Like

  11. julia says:

    I love these posts, and I’m so glad to have found your blog!
    There are few radical feminist blogs (in English) that are still on the web these days.
    I agree with everything you wrote.

    I was recently at the U of Arizona’s Take Back the Night. By the # of men present and the# of male speakers, you’d never know it was a woman’s event. The main speaker was a FTM transperson who spoke in graphic terms about men raping transgendered people, but no one spoke in grpahic terms about what they do to women. A fraternity sponsored the event. Even the local sexual assault center (remember when they used to be called rape crisis centers? That has much more fire) said that only a minority of men rape. I asked the woman how she knew that and she did not have an answer. I think many many men rape women; maybe half of all men – maybe more than half.

    So where are women when OUR event, TBTN, has been hijacked by men?
    Many rape crisis centers say they can not use language that says that rape is a misogynist crime – if they do not have “inclusive” language they will lose their funding.

    Reading your posts on men invading lesbian space only affirms my separatism more.
    If we don’t stand for and with each other, if we are ‘nice’ and ‘inclusive’ , things will get even worse.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thank you so much, Julia. I agree with you! I hadn’t known it had gotten that bad. It’s really almost like a bad science fiction movie. That is horrific about the FTM coopting rape. (After I get more of our book online, I’ll be finishing part 2 of my article, which will be about FTMs.) Be “inclusive” about rape?!! Deny it’s misogynist?! I guess it really is about the money, and wanting to be accepted. I remember when the local rape crisis group became a job and career. At the rally in Richmond, after a 15 year old girl had been gang-raped at her high school for hours, with the boys and men texting for more friends to come and join in, those rapists were said to be victims too. It’s just unbelievable.

      Anyway, I know you know. That’s great you’re a Separatist too. I hope enough get outraged that things could really change.

      Like

  12. jane hathaway says:

    Julia & Bev, I am a rape crisis volunteer advocate. Recently our paid social worker/counselor supervisor invited us all to create a t-shirt for the clothesline project (http://www.clotheslineproject.org/) . I made mine say “castrate rapists,” and it created a stir. But at least 2 of the 15 other advocates told me they agreed. 🙂 So what I learned is that speaking out does resonate with some. And, Bev, you inspire me to do that, often.

    Like

  13. Bev Jo says:

    Thank you so much, Jane. You inspire me too!

    It’s so helpful to share stories and information. Too many Lesbians and women are afraid to speak out now. Once, it didn’t matter as much if we were criticized for being radical, but our politics have been turned against us.

    Like

  14. julia says:

    Jane, I just read your comment and I luaghed out loud – on the computer at the public library! You are brave, and reading all of you women lifts me up. It is so hard to be an army of one, which is how I feel most of the time.

    It also heartens me to read “I will never give up on lesbians, never!”. Now I can walk outside in the sunshine and go on with my day.

    Like

  15. James says:

    Okay….I get the point of Women’s Only Spaces as much as Men’s Only Spaces. No problem with that at all. I do have a question though. Have you read the recent evidence found by scientists that a “male” or “female” brain is actually a result of a wash of hormones from inside the womb? Take for instance the case of David Reimer.
    We are beginning to understand more and more that female or male outlooks are more complex than the XXY or XX chromosomal configurations. It seems that that there are also “Chimera” out there as well, who have to learn to identify with one sex or the other.
    Given that these types of variables are so unpredictable, and also given the NAPALT defense often used by both Feminist and MRA camps, can you really feel comfortable damning an entire group of people under a “patriarchal” umbrella pattern of thought?
    Or—in your view…is this type of anomaly wherein a Female mind is developed inside a man’s body simply an abomination, and not to be accepted even after the “castration” event has taken place.
    Of course, I am looking for a real answer here, as too few people actually bother to debate nowadays. This was not meant to be insulting….simply thought provoking.
    Please check out the any evidence as to what I have posted. Feel free to rebut with evidence of your own….

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      David Reimer was a botched circumcision, castration, and raised as a girl while given estrogen. Many girls wish they were male because males get so much more privilege. Having an identical twin brother he could watch having access to all that boys have, while he was put in pink and dresses, having his hair done, life restricted, and being molested by Dr. John Money is what I believe made him insist he was male. That’s separate from the innate biological difference between males and females, which I agree does exist and which explains male violence (desire to rape, torture, and kill) across species.

      Equating “women’s space” with “men’s space” shows that you don’t comprehend the extent of patriarchy and how “men’s space” includes where men get together to plan war, rape, and the destruction of the environment.

      I don’t know what you’re talking about with the initials you gave.

      I don’t believe females develop in male bodies. As I wrote, I’ve yet to read or hear an MTF come even close to having an understanding of what a female is — instead, it’s all bizarre fetish, objectification, obsession, and pornographic. There is absolutely no true and natural representation of females in the general media, and very rarely even in the Lesbian media.

      It’s been over 40 years that I’ve been observing the destruction that men who claim to be Lesbians have wrought, and I haven’t seen a single positive thing from them. Naming reality isn’t “damning” anyone — it’s trying to protect and defend what little Lesbians and women have left. Why aren’t you instead questioning these men about the harm they are doing, which I described in detail?

      Like

  16. James says:

    Thank you for an answer. I will look farther. The NAPALT means “not all people are like that”. Usually used as NAWALT (w=women), NAMALT (m=men), NAFALT (f=feminists).
    Just out of curiosity, have you looked up the recent research as to the establishment of male/female minds inside the womb?
    I think we must agree to disagree considering the prevalent nature of differences between my concept of “logic” and others’ concept of “belief”.
    I am already aware that “logic” is given to be a “Male” attribute. I am also VERY aware of some interesting strides feminist scientists have made in the field of micro-biology by tackling old problems with a twist on the current scientific methods used by scientists world-wide. However, these separate modes of thought are obviously viable for tackling different issues, and so make a complimentary, rather than opposing view of the world around us.
    I find it also interesting that if the idea of gender identity is to be eradicated, that males are given all the “rape/war/destruction” aspects and females are often given the “nurture/love/nature” aspects. It does seem that that the top wants to spin on it’s side given the the cross-purpose of gender identity. It is my understanding that there is a growing belief that the world would be better of with fewer men. Of course, being male, ex-military, and an advocate for true equality before the LAW without preferential treatment for either sex, I can agree that there are a few men the world could do without, but to hold men up to the “aspect” standard is just as prejudiced as what some males do to females…..and it seems to me that that way of thought would be “patriarchy” based..ie, seeing divisions in what should be a unique whole.
    Of course, I already understand the counter-argument that women who do some of the things men do (serial-killers, abusers, ect.) are simply misguided by the power struggles between the sexes (causing all kinds of mental disorders). However, that does little to explain what Andrea Dworkin wrote :

    “”It is no accident that in the ancient matriarchies men were castrated, sacrificially slaughtered, and excluded from public forms of power; nor is it an accident that some female supremacists now believe men to be a distinct and inferior species or race. Wherever power is accessible or bodily integrity honored on the basis of biological attribute, systematized cruelty permeates the society and murder and mutilation contaminate it. We will not be different”

    Given that there are plenty of examples of cruelty regardless of the sexes, can’t it be summed up as a HUMAN condition, rather than as a MALE condition?

    But to use your argument…….
    Yes…it seems off-topic to the discussion of MTF, but it seems to me the same as saying that there are no such things as black holes just because you can’t see them, or haven’t seen them yet. Have you ever thought that if the gradual feminisation of society, especially as concerns the aforementioned “male-centric” values are successful that the majority of MTF would in fact conform to your idea of what a woman is?
    It makes me wonder if you view FTM differently…as sexual traitors, or women who simply want the “male privilege” by adopting the bodies of men.
    I appreciate the discussion, and look forward to further debate.

    Like

  17. Bev Jo says:

    Quoting Andrea Dworkin to use against us doesn’t impress me. Unlike many later feminists, I don’t set any writer or thinker up as a god or leader. Andrea did great work, but I already had my Separatist politics by then, and of course she would defend men since she was married to one.

    I am also not impressed with scientists and their “work”. These are the people who once (and if you look, you can still find some) declared that white men were superior to all, by measuring the brains of other races, women, etc. They gave validity to why slavery and genocide were “good”. Henry Laughlin was so esteemed a scientist that the Nazis gave him honorary degrees from Heidelberg. He was the “father” of eugenics and responsible for the forced sterilization of many poor people in the US. His “work” so inspired the Nazi scientists that they began their own eugenics program. My 16 year old aunt was a victim of US eugenics scientists when she was sterilized against her will for being a “criminal” (for being poor really.) So don’t expect instant worship when you mention scientist to prove your ideas.

    Scientists are the men who brought us nuclear weapons and nuclear energy and tell us how safe they are. They are the men who play with biological weapons, the effects of which have made my and my friends’ lives hell. Their invention of toxic drugs for profit led to the death of my mother and dear friends. They approve toxic chemicals that are now in all of our air and water.

    I am not impressed with degrees or with experiments. Scientists can prove almost anything they want to if they have enough money for the “studies.” They once told us we were mentally ill.

    However, when some male scientists say that the differences between males and females is biological and not socialization, and that male human brains don’t even develop some aspects (such as true empathy) until they are in their thirties, and even then it’s not the same as with females, I do agree. I base my politics and beliefs on logic and what I observe. Almost all males sexually assault and very few females do. Females who are violent usually have backgrounds of serious abuse. Males can grow up with incredible privilege and love and support and still become serial rapists and killers. There hasn’t yet been a female serial killer. There are not “plenty of examples of cruelty regardless of the sexes.” Have you not watched the news, been in the world, been in a room with both males and females? The differences are glaring and constant.
    Women have been trying for millenia to raise less violent men. It obviously doesn’t work. At best, males are deficient, but, even with the “nicest,” I always say that you never know what they are doing when alone with babies or animals.

    Have you not read my other article? Males are destroying the earth. We are running out of time. Of course there should be no more men!

    I am not a liberal. I don’t want “the idea of gender identity eradicated.” You must not have read what I wrote.

    I’m not really debating with you. I’m responding because some of your comments are what some Lesbians say, so I’m answering that here. Otherwise, it’s a waste of time and what I’ve been answering for 40 years.

    We as females and Lesbians are expected to and it is demanded of us that we spend our time thinking about, taking care of, and relating to males. I don’t want to and I’ve seen the effects of men claiming our identity for over 40 years. I explained the damage they have done. I want us to be finally rid of them. It is so different when they are not present. (Not that they would have a clue since they can never experience that.)

    Of course I “view FTMs differently…as sexual traitors, or women who simply want the “male privilege” by adopting the bodies of men.” Not that they can really succeed. They are women, although it’s seeming that very few really are Lesbians since most end up going back to men. I’ve written about them and will be finishing my article soon that will be part 2 of “Defining Lesbians Out of Existence: The Pretenders.”

    Like

  18. James says:

    Wow! Thanks for the insight. Of course I feel strongly in other ways, and any further debate will only be compromised by the fact I am male, and the depth of our emotions. Therefore I will respectfully disagree and take my leave.
    Good luck with your preparation, and I shall meet you upon the field of battle.

    Like

  19. mananon says:

    ‘Almost all males sexually assault’.

    Those are your words, to which my only response is:

    Prove it

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      I don’t have to prove it. How do you prove anything in patriarchy? Use common sense. Do you know ANY female who hasn’t been raped or sexually assaulted in some way? Almost all girls and women are sexually assaulted in their families, often by several male family members. The “nicest” men do it. Almost all women also experience being sexually assaulted by men when they’re adults, and these aren’t all the same men. Prove it isn’t true.

      Like

  20. jane hathaway says:

    “I shall meet you on the field of battle.”
    What a typical posturing, egomanaical prick.
    You are so right about him–and them–Bev!
    Doesn’t he know you have access to who he is and where he is! It’s called common sense, you don’t threaten someone online, even if you want to. It’s traceable. LOL!

    Like

  21. James says:

    Wow….a threat? Really? That was certainly not meant as a physical threat, however, as an MRA the “field of battle” is in the legislators lobbies and the courts of law. I mean, not to mention the fact I’m ex-military anyway, so those types of phrases are meant more to be issued between RESPECTED opponents. Check your history and I’m sure you will more than a few such phrases often occurring between Generals. That’s one of the great things about the United States. I believe in YOUR right to say what you want. I don’t have to agree with it, I certainly can help to push for legislation of equal treatment through legal means, and I’m even willing to put my life on the line to protect that freedom for You. There are those in the world who would seek to take that away from you, but I will fully defend your right to say what you need to say. Once again…Good luck with your preparation, and I shall meet you upon the field of battle.

    Like

    • KatieS says:

      BevJo, thank you for your insights, based on years of experience in the lesbian community. I appreciated your telling about your experiences with Elliott, and how he began this stuff in the 1970’s and eyewitness account of some of the specific ways that it was destructive. It is important for lesbians and radical feminists to hear about that today, lest they think that it’s something new to M2T’s (male to transexual) behavior, some sort of emerging trend. It’s good to warn lesbians of what to expect, so even if they are misled for a while the damage will be less, because they will remember reading about it and something will click more quickly.

      @ALesbian, I appreciated the discussion of the vulnerability of women who are just coming out, and I’m thinking that todays women are also getting misdirected toward the “genderqueer” movement at that time, since most of the college groups are LGBTQ groups now, and the supportive community they are seeking is filled with misdirection, or even the internet where the supportive community is a medicalized cult with women getting directed to start “T” and think about surgery. I shudder to think about it. I also think about your story that this was an older guy preying on young lesbians he’s some creepy fetishist. It has nothing to do with some “woman trapped inside” Goes to show what BevJo said at the start, that it often doesn’t occur to us to think that they are lying when they talk about “feeling female” from birth.

      Hmmmm. . . .Men, sex, lying? Who would have thought it?!? 😉

      Like

  22. anonymous says:

    all lesbians are low life pigs and need to be destroyed.

    Like

  23. Bev Jo says:

    Well, that cuts out the game-playing and attempts to con us. And so cowardly too. Of course “anonymous” is a man. Is he admitting that trannie MTFs are not Lesbians after all?

    Like

  24. Robyn Lowsley says:

    Here he is, calling himself Robyn. Again, he can be seen at http://www.facebook.com/robyn.lowsley?sk=wall

    You sound like a male , you should be making friends with transwomen so you can get some estrogen from them LOL. I am female and a lesbian , and i have male friends who have been raped, and because of testosterone-driven life forms like you they are shamed and get no legal justice. Sexual assualt against under 18’s is higher against males, homeless levels for men make up 85%….. I have a good life thanks to being female, i get better education, everything.. Women are the majority of voters, and hold 65% of all uk/us wealth…. you say that facts cannot be proven in this “patriarchy” but then why would evil men admit to women living longer, holding more wealth, and making up the greater percentage of voters? Your entire argument is built upon immature hatred .
    I am in the uk, the statistics published by the home office were published by genetic females… i’m sure you have a way to explain how they are in fact not genetic females. Luckily feminism is globally being realized for the joke that it is, you are the same as the KKK and you have a shelf life. You dont even have the support of the majority of women. You shame women because you openly claim that we are all too dumb and too gullible that we will believe the bullshit statistics you invent. Masculinism is getting more publicity, im sure you will jump onto that bandwagon when youve had your sex change. I am a female you are not, but ah well i dont hate you, you’l understand when you grow up.

    Like

  25. Jaye Jill says:

    The insults and threats that these men (yes, they ARE men–if you didn’t survive girlhood, you are not a woman) use proves every point that Bev is making. They aren’t women, they hate women. Go, Bev, go! Don’t let these nasty prickless pricks daunt your spirit.

    Like

  26. Bev Jo says:

    Thanks so much, Jaye. I know you’ve been in the struggle for a long time fighting for Lesbians and women against men. I’ve gotten some very strange letters, basically sounding like the same idiot and clearly male (even though one professed to be female.) Their hatred of females and Lesbians, and denial of how privileged they are and how oppressed we are in patriarchy is amazing. It all comes back to their narcissism and objectification of real women.

    Like

  27. GallusMag says:

    The trans really are about hating and destroying women, especially Lesbians. You NEVER EVER see a trans commenting to say “Hey I don’t agree with that behavior” or “That’s not cool”. NEVER. They would rather see women DEAD than allowed to speak about the falsity and women-hatred of “gender”. Can you IMAGINE if a feminist went to a trans site and said ” all trans are low life pigs and need to be destroyed”? They would all be calling the white house! There would be senate hearings! Can you even IMAGINE a funfem site like feministing allowing women to say they don’t believe in gender? Or questioning the pathologizing and medical sterilization on gender non-conforming gay children? The trans would FREAK OUT. They would rather kill us all than let women discuss gender.
    I had one yesterday that said women are just as likely to rape and be sexual predators as men. I told them not to comment again until they looked at violent crime statistics. Instead, they commented about 25 more times like a crazy person, not taking no for an answer. Pissing all over MY blog. Then another one did the same thing- about 20 comments, after they had been asked to leave. THEN they left a comment saying “Hey Ruth how are your parents in Chicago” Like they thought they had stalked me and knew who I was IRL and were spewing thinly veiled threats AGAINST MY FAMILY. THIS is the level of SICKNESS and HATRED these trans have against women. Especially against women they can not bully or use or SILENCE. And again, NOT ONE PEEP from a single trans saying “Hey that’s not cool” or “I disagree with that”. NOT ONE even though they troll the hell out of our blogs. Why? BECAUSE THEY AGREE WITH THE THREATS THE STALKING AND THE INVASION TACTICS. It’s no different than the trannies running around Michfest with machetes and cutting the lines to the toilets and littering the place with pictures of THEIR DICKS.
    “Only a man can be a woman the way men want women to be”. Problem is they need to exterminate all the real women who keep interrupting their masturbation fantasies.

    Like

  28. Pingback: More Fun With Death Threats – The Bev Jo Edition « GenderTrender

  29. Bev Jo says:

    Thank you, Gallus! You said that so well. And the stalking….it’s good they have no idea who you are or where you came from.

    I’ve been getting several similar-sounding letters, clearly from men. A common thing, which I haven’t heard before, is that we are not living in a patriarchy, so we must prove this to these men. Again, even regular het men admit to patriarchy (but not het men who claim to be Lesbians.) So girls still have their clitorises cut out, women are arrested if they drive in Saudi Arabia, and almost every girl and woman has been sexually assaulted.

    This last letter, which I will allow to be seen, unlike the others (though clearly the same person), claims to be a Lesbian, but as you all can see from the link to his facebook page (thank you for finding it, Val!), is a pathetic female impersonator (or possibly castrated man), who cannot begin to hide the fact that anyone looking even at just his photo can see he is male. He sounds so miserable. One could almost feel sorry for him until you think again about the hatred for us and all females that he spews.

    http://www.facebook.com/robyn.lowsley?sk=wall

    Like

  30. The trans really are about hating and destroying women, especially Lesbians.

    That really is the name of the game. No difference between tranz and regular dudes (apart from the outfits and lippy). It’s trojan horse misogyny. That is why it is important that they silence us speaking out about it.

    Do we ever see them fight for women’s rights? Only trans’ rights. Which proves they only want to be speshul snowflake ‘women’ and not like the rest of us. Where were their mass street demos to get gender recognition legislation? They didn’t even break a nail. It was handed to them – because the dudes in power know how damaging they are to real females. I call them the Laydees’ Auxiliary of the Patriarchy.

    Like

  31. Jaye Jill says:

    They stalk because they are MEN. Their female defenders need to wake up and smell the masculine entitlement.

    Like

  32. Valerie M says:

    Thank you Bev for posting this. If you check out dude’s facebook page it’s so obvious he hasn’t a clue what life is like for actual women. Complete denial of the violence women face every day; complete denial of greater society’s utter lack of concern for that violence.

    I call them the Laydees’ Auxiliary of the Patriarchy.

    Haha good one!

    Is that how bad Michfest has gotten now, Gallus? I was thinking of going now that I am back on this side of the pond, but that sounds just disgusting.

    Like

  33. KatieS says:

    If they were secure in their beliefs that they are women, they would not need to threaten and stalk. The very act of doing this shows that they, too, know it’s a sham. They know that they are not women. Somehow, getting females to go along with the sham is supposed to make it real. It never will because it never can.

    I’d be happy for them if they could be secure in their desire to to dress as a gender role other than the one the culture assigned to them. Obviously they see there is a lot wrong with masculine gender roles and they don’t want to be that role. They are right about that! They don’t have to claim to be the same as females. If they dressed in ways the culture says men shouldn’t dress and still claimed to be men, it might actually help get rid of the rigidity of those roles. Everyone could dress as they pleased.

    Why not say that you reject masculine roles? That would be way braver than attacking women who are standing up for ourselves.

    Like

  34. Valerie M says:

    KatieS, that’s far too much sense for the internet! 🙂

    Like

  35. Male “science” was the worst fucking thing that ever happened to the world and to women. Cordelia Fine has concisely debunked all of men’s brain “science” in her book “Delusions of Gender.”
    She (hilariously) ridicules the “scientists” who worked very hard trying desperately to find a correlation between maleness and intelligence.

    “The hypothesis, widely believed, that this sex difference in the brain was of profound psychological significance was championed by Paul Broca, one of the most eminent scientists at the time. Only when it became inescapably clear that brain weight did not correlate with intelligence did brain scientists acknowledge that men’s larger brains might merely reflect their larger bodies. This inspired a search for a measure of relative, rather than absolute, brain weight that would leave the absolute bigger brain sex ahead. As historian of science Cynthia Russett reports:

    “Many ratios were tired- of brain weight to height, to body weight, to muscular mass, to the size of the heart, even (one begins to sense desparation) to some one bone, such as the femur”

    Oh they are silly aren’t they

    You have to laugh at men and their “science”. To men, science consists of a long history of vivisection (cutting into live animals, sometimes even into women for sexual-pleasure-sorry-I-meant-experimentation). It consists of whipping out women’s wombs and ovaries because their husbands thought they were mentally ill i.e non-compliant. It consists of lobotomizing women because “women’s creativity is not needed in our culture”. It consists of burning “dirty” midwives so that men could take over childbirth but then because men were so ignorant of the way nature works (still are!) they didn’t wash their hands, leading to countless tortuous deaths of women. They invented the episiotomy in gynecology, which means they (still today, if you can believe it) CUT a labouring woman’s perinium to get the baby out. These stupid men simply cannot contemplate that women’s bodies have been designed perfectly and function much better without their interference. Episiotomies often lead to third degree tears and incontinence. Midwives know that the perinium will open slowly like a blooming flower if the birth attendant just sits back and waits, without meddling.
    Men not meddling where they’re not needed or wanted? That’s the joke of the millenium.

    My current favourite is the patriarchal craze in Japan of chopping down trees along river banks and cementing them over to prevent floods…
    You can’t make this up.

    Like

    • I know I know! Brain “studies” to determine XYZ are a dangerous joke – their sole purpose is to prove superiority (of males). More recently, they have turned these brain “studies” to try and prove that M2Ts are “rilly rilly females trapped in a male body”. Considering these latest “studies” are always done on M2Ts who have taken estrogen, all it proves are the differences in the brain due to estrogen. End o’ story.

      Like

      • Men’s science is a joke

        Like

      • Lizzy Shaw says:

        All those brain studies were jokes, I agree. One other thing to note is that women scored higher than men on the first SATs, so they (being men) decided the test was flawed and changed it. Of course, the changes more often had to do with how well you knew sports and other male popular culture than actually knowing math. You can see a similar history when it comes to standardized IQ tests and race/ethnicity. In the end, it was all a bunch of thinly-veiled bullshit to justify male and white supremacy.

        I take brain studies with a grain of salt since girls do better in math and science in countries where there is higher equality between the sexes, which seems to indicate that environments play a role in how your brain gets developed and what you learn.

        Like

  36. Bev Jo says:

    Yes, male science is literally destroying the world, and I know too many who have died because of their arrogance. There was a lot more ranting about their science in letters I didn’t approve, but you answered them well anyway!

    The thread that I see connecting all the men claiming to be women is:

    1. Objectification and fetishizing — they clearly have no idea what being female is at all and instead are obsessed with the male invention of false “femininity” — so they just prove how male they are.

    2. Incredible narcissism and selfish self-centeredness with typical male sense of entitlement. They literally don’t care about anyone else. Meanwhile, real women are far more involved in fighting to help and defend the earth, animals, oppressed humans, etc.

    3. Insane jealousy. I guess this is because deep down they know Lesbians are the best, and so they are eaten alive with jealousy since they obviously can never be us.

    Like

    • I’m not a lesbian 🙂
      But I do see that lesbians, or women who love women (such as Virginia Woolf), have been the source of much feminist advancement. And that without lesbians there would be very little chance of a revolution.
      I do agree with you that men are eaten alive with an insane jealousy of women. Womb envy. I see it all the time, in my everyday dealings with men, especially those who gravitate towards medicine.
      I can’t remember who said it first, but WTF are they even *doing* in gynecology or pediatrics, if not enacting their god-complexes through controlling women?

      Gender reassignment surgeons are another perfect example of men attempting to make the claim women’s wombs have produced faulty human beings, which must now be corrected by male demi-Gods (Women, actually, never produce “faulty” human beings. Ever. Just variations of people. Unless of course their wombs have been polluted by men’s chemicals, radiation, pesticides, mercuary etc But otherwize, *all* humans are born perfect. )

      Male surgeons, including cosmetic surgeons, who think they can *improve* *on* the creative geniuses of women’s wombs are *delusional* . Male surgeons who believe that women’s wombs created humans with the wrong brain in the wrong body are also *delusional*

      Nature Doesn’t Make Mistakes.
      The Entire History of Male “Science” has been a Mistake.

      Like

    • KatieS says:

      BevJo, thanks for the concise and brilliant summary. Here are some thoughts I had when I read it:

      #1 Objectification and fetishizing. I just don’t get this. I think that there is something in males that leads to fetishizing. It seems like it is a genetic defect. They all do it, and it is hard for females to get that males do it, because we don’t do it. Males, of course, learn to hide it so they can do it without detection or interference.

      This relates to #2. Females do not waste their time with fetishes. We look around and see the horrible state of the planet and human civilization, we see this with compassion and empathy. Empathy/compassion are the opposite of objectification and fetishizing.

      I see this relating to #3 as well. As females try to defend the earth and the oppressed, we often do not put females (ourselves and other females) at the centers of our worlds. But lesbians are on the path to doing this because we have a chance for non-oppressive relationships, i.e., satisfying, genuine relationships, profound relationships. These relationships are beyond male understanding, something they cannot imagine and cannot have. I’m not saying all lesbians realize this potential, but it is always there for lesbians, there in the background (as Mary Daly defines background), waiting to be realized if it is not already. Men become jealous when they cannot have something that someone else does.

      Like

  37. Bev Jo says:

    I agree — there is so much of this whole trannie thing what is just like a very badly done science fiction story. How on earth can a male doctor created a woman out of a man? It’s a patriarchal joke.

    I just don’t know why other women don’t see it so clearly, but it’s that empathy and compassion towards anyone claiming to be suffering. We count less, so our suffering, our oppression from these men, our movement and communities almost being destroyed don’t matter. These men come into women only space to perv on us. They are less like us in mind and spirit and body than female animals of other species.

    But, yes, seeing it all in the context of male doctors who specialize in women, try to control us, give out psychiatric drugs to almost every girl and woman (which someone told me last night changes libido, so is a way to try to stop women being Lesbians — though to me it’s about heart before sexuality), and literally to destroy us. They’ve brought back electric shock “treatment.” I don’t know why it’s all a surprise to me when most women obey these men doing the most terrible things to them (including radiation and chemotherapy.) Rape, psychiatric torture, war where females suffer the most, horrific pollution, etc. is all connected. Patriarchal invaders knew that a way to destroy more female-centered cultures was to cut down the forests. Men worship their scientists, but these are the same group of people who have invented the most destructive forces ever. As we quoted a nuclear scientist at the beginning of our book about his enjoyment of seeing a nuclear weapon detonated,, “A male human being loves to see an explosion.”

    Thank you, Katie, for reminding us that men’s minds work so differently and how they all fetishize. I think it’s their uncontrollable desire to rape and destroy. (Even little boys are so violent. I saw this as a girl before the modern violence in the media.)

    That’s excellent to say that empathy and compassion are the opposite of fetishizing and objectification.

    And yes, men are eaten alive with jealousy towards us — about so many things, but especially about being Lesbians. Their entire set up is based on the assumption of owning us, which is taken for granted throughout patriarchy. They have conned most women into believing that they need men. No other oppressed group is just assumed to be owned by their oppressor in the ways males own females. They do not want to take no for an answer, so Lesbians drive them crazy on so many levels. We are the ones who have gotten away.

    So of course they invent another set of lies to get us and to con us. I just wish all women would see it, like they do when “Lizard Man” is shown on TV, and nothing about him is like a real lizard. (Poor lizards!)

    Like

    • “Patriarchal invaders knew that a way to destroy more female-centered cultures was to cut down the forests.”

      This is very interesting. I’m working on a project at the moment IRL that might tie in with that. I will look into it more.

      Like

  38. jane hathaway says:

    I just have to say that all of the Lesbians’ comments here are not only true and right and powerful, they are practically glowing with Lesbian heart and soul. I can’t add anything at the moment, but want to express my appreciation to you, Bev, Val, Jaye, Gallus Mag, Katie, Cherryblossom, FAB Libber, and others, for expressing yourselves, on all our behalf, so beautifully.

    Like

  39. SheilaG says:

    You can always tell a trans by the sheer level of attack on women. When I have run ins with radfems on the internet, they are honest disagreements. Women don’t jump on me and say they hate me or want to kill me. They might get very angry at my extreme lesbian promoting ideas… and I admit to feeling a huge sense of moral superiority because of my lifelong lesbian resistence to all things penis… that being said, Trans are out to destroy lesbian nation, and Michfest. They (like all men) cannot accept the fact that we don’t want castrated men in all women’s sacred spaces. And if you have never been in an all lesbian small group, you have never experienced the full power of a woman’s sacred circle or space. Especially if it is all lesbian, but it also works for all women.
    Trans women that have invaded lesbians spaces I’ve been in do a variety of things… one..they take over, they start leading lesbian drop in groups and are allowed to do this by male organizations that are trying to get grants off of women’s lives. The second thing they do is get on panel discussions and then they undermine well respected radical lesbian feminists and even create an environment where the very word “lesbian” is erased from the panel. A third thing is they want sexual access to lesbians. As men, there was no way this was going to happen outside of rape, but with trans, they think they are lesbians, and they actually come on to lesbians in lesbian bars. I’ve had this happen to me many times. Now they weren’t violent, and I politely told them no, naturally, but the fact that a former man came onto me sexually in a LESBIAN bar is really bad IMHO. And they don’t know how to behave because they weren’t raised as girls and they literally don’t know what male entitlement behavior is… how would they know, they have always been boys and men, so that’s the behavior they know.

    I can’t think of two groups that have less in common than trans-MtTs and lesbians, especially radical lesbian feminists! The hatred is the male signifier, funny how they have never learned to act like a real woman and NOT threaten women who say no to them. That’s the dead give away.

    Like

    • KgSch says:

      Yes, they do have so little in common with lesbians, especially those of us who are radical feminists! I’ve had friendships fall apart in the past just because we had nothing to talk about because we had nothing in common. One of the girls I was friends with was a very nice person too, but we drifted apart because we had almost no common interests.

      The same thing should happen here, but it doesn’t. These men can’t take no for an answer, so they get all up in our space even though they know we don’t want them there. It would be so easy to them out of our space if other lesbians weren’t supporting them and defending them. The same feminist women who will support the right of women to not associate with men, especially if she feels unsafe around them, will turn around and call lesbians/other women who don’t want to be around female impersonators “bigots”.

      I imagine if Elliot never claimed to be a man that lesbians would have called him what he is: a creepy, rapey het man. I suspect that even if he had really been a woman his boundary-violating behavior would be less tolerated. But in mainstream feminism fantasy land, female impersonators are the most oppressed creatures ever so they get a free pass.

      Like

  40. Bev Jo says:

    Thanks, Jane and Sheila!

    You are absolutely right, Sheila, about how they use their male power, arrogance, authority and sense of entitlement to literally take over the few remaining Lesbian thinks that we have left.

    Their arrogance prevents them from realizing how they do not have a clue what it means to be a real woman.

    I especially love
    “I can’t think of two groups that have less in common than trans-MtTs and lesbians, especially radical lesbian feminists! The hatred is the male signifier, funny how they have never learned to act like a real woman and NOT threaten women who say no to them. That’s the dead give away.”

    Like

  41. SheilaG says:

    It is the weird empathy thing gone wild. Lesbians promoting every damn cause on the planet except other lesbians. Lesbians not caring if other lesbians die, but putting their lives on the line for men with AIDS.
    Lesbians at gay and lesbian centers going on “AIDS rides” even though no lesbians or almost no lesbian get AIDS. But health care issues JUST focusing on lesbians… never saw one major fundraiser- that MEN and women participated in that was JUST for the benefit of lesbians. Not one.
    This idea that women have to “give back” “donate” “give away things for free”– it makes me just crazy, because lesbians are among the poorest of the poor. One woman lost her home when her partner died, but I never saw one gay man step up and help her keep her home. Not one.
    Lesbians need to support lesbians, we need to have that revolutionary commitment that our movement IS # 1 on a political agenda, and that straight women can show up for this, the way they used lesbian labor on birth control and abortion issues. It’s why my focus is on work place issues, because jobs and income affect ALL women. It’s why I don’t want to do anything that involves child care, children, birth control or sex with men issues.

    Like

    • KgSch says:

      I strongly agree with this comment. I support access to birth control and abortion of course, but they really aren’t lesbian issues. The exceptions are rape (for abortion) and maybe some medical conditions like PCOS for the pill. Even then, those pharmaceuticals can be dodgy for a lot of women. I’ve gotten along with almost every prescription I’ve had to take in my life, except for anti-nausea/anti-barfing medicine when I had diverticulitis but I know it isn’t that way for everyone.

      I was involved in a lot of pro-choice activism as a teenager, and many of the people there were quite nice, but there’s always a heterosexist vibe. Like most organizations, if it’s run by hets, there’s always going to be some lesbian-haters. Also, it seems that most pro-choice organizations are bowing to trannies with this “birthing parent” and “uterus bearer” and “people who can get pregnant” nonsense. Maybe if I tell my mother that she’s my “birthing parent” she’ll finally realize that trannies hate all women and aren’t people with intersex conditions. Right now, the only pro-choice group I can support in good conscience is a radical feminist tumblr blog that says “we are not uterus-bearers.” And I don’t know if that’s still up. I would rather focus on things that are more likely to help lesbians and I say the het and bi women can deal with this problem.

      Also, I refuse, refuse to be involved in organizations that are for the purposes of helping middle class parents. I actually decided to be childfree before I decided to be a lesbian, and I still haven’t changed my mind despite getting closer to 30. In fact, I can just point out that getting pregnant is a hetero act. Elinor Burkett’s book, The Baby Boon: How Family-Friendly America Cheats the Childless is a good read. It is rather dated (Clinton era) and some parts are a bit dull, but it talks about how one of the biggest redistribution of wealth wasn’t from rich to poor, but from nonparents (especially women) to parents.

      Also, very good point about AIDS! I’ve been pointing out to anyone who will listen that AIDS isn’t a lesbian issue and we are some of the least likely people to get it. There’s no way that gay men would help us if lesbians were dying of an illness like that. Actually, many older lesbians get cancer, and many off us are poor, but you don’t see gay men or any alphabet soup groups pitching in to help. There used to be organizations for lesbians with cancer, but not they include “anyone who identifies as a lesbian”, as in men! And of course the men get the most help because the mindscrew is trans the most oppressed.

      Like

  42. KatieS says:

    BevJo, I appreciate your thoughts on how our empathy flows out, but nothing comes back. Sheila, I think that the AIDS support was one way that people began to assume that LGBTQ’s were all just one big group. Not only did lesbians support GBTQ’s who are most likely to get aids, but other resources (funding, heterosexual votes, etc) went to the GBTQ’s but all these resources assumed that it was for lesbians, too. I agree with you that financial and workplace issues are a big deal.

    Building community and advocating for older women and lesbians in nursing homes, etc. is another issue I find important. I’ve been reading “Outercourse” thinking about Mary Daly’s evolution as a lesbian, radical feminist philosopher, and about her deep connection and reverence for her mother as she aged. What a treasured and spiritually important time that is.

    It also reminds me of Ruth Ellis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Ellis_(American) who lived to be 100 and was the oldest out lesbian and was an African-American lesbian activist. I know that she had a multi-racial community of lesbians that treasured her and took strength from her example as she aged. In her life, she provided refuge for African-American lesbians and gays. I thought about her when I read the posts about not giving away our valuable resources where they will be exploited. (Our time, our empathy, our money). In some ways Ellis exemplified that.

    Great thread!

    Like

  43. KatieS says:

    Here’s a better link about Ellis. It’s a description of a documentary about her life. http://www.answers.com/topic/living-with-pride-ruth-ellis-at-100

    Like

  44. Bev Jo says:

    You’re right, Sheila, We went on about that in our book — how the Shanti Project for dying Lesbians and gay men became only for gay men, with Lesbians having nowhere to go. Lesbians were literally asked for our blood because it’s the cleanest. The Lyon-Martin Clinic, theoretically for Lesbians, has a male director and is now virtually bankrupt. An announcement asked for Lesbian money to support it, even though Lesbians came low on the list, after trannies and homeless people. I could never afford it. I was at a benefit for it recently and it was terrible to see Kate Kendall of NCLR bullying Lesbians into donating money for something that really is not for us. (I do wonder what her salary is.) Lyon-Martin and NCLR only pretend to be for Lesbians. I agree about not taking on the usual het issues that many Lesbians support as well. It’s all about gay men or het women — so rarely do Lesbians support Lesbians.

    And you’re right, Katie, about Lesbian support for gay men with AIDS causing more Lesbians to be associated with LGBT. Thanks for the info about Ruth Ellis.

    Like

  45. SheilaG says:

    Shanti started out as an organization for dying lesbians and gay men? Is that correct? We did a fundraiser a long time ago for women with AIDS and their kids. At that time (1988 I think) there were no service organizations at all specifically for women with AIDS and their kids. Lesbians, naturally, spearheaded a giant fundraiser for it, and a lesbian founded it. When we had the fundraiser, it was packed with about 200 lesbians, and about 4 (count ’em) 4 gay men. So that really hit home for me.
    What drives me nuts about women is the give give give and GET NOTHING in return. If I could think of one trait that will sink women it’s this idea that everyone else is number 1 except lesbians. Lesbians were pioneering feminists, and the American feminist movement of the 19th century would have gone nowhere without lesbians (spinsters) behind this. Straight women were literally baby machines back then, if they were married to men. I was really amazed at Kate Kendall and LCLR and this who CEO fundraising machine that just takes lesbian money and redistributes it to non-lesbians. Can you imagine the NAACP redistributing money to white Americans? Can you imagine the American Cancer Society giving their funds to the leprosy foundation? What is it about lesbians and money? Why are we still pathetically pour after 40 years? I think we need to seriously rethink our economic status, and what we can do to change it.

    Like

  46. SheilaG says:

    When lesbian separatism and lesbian community stood on its own, we had a surprising number of female only businesses on Valencia Street in San Francisco, for example. Gay AND Lesbian doesn’t mean women get the bulk of the money. So again, all lesbians need to challenge gay men and liberal straights to give to lesbian supported, and lesbian nurturing organizations. It means a lesbian specific gain is supported. And I have yet to go to a fundraiser that was 100% on behalf of lesbians, although I hear from Kate Kendall and gang all the time. “CEO” Lori Jean of the gay and lesbian center here only shows up for donor events… thus creating two classes of lesbians…. clients and donors. They “Use” older lesbians to do fundraising for supposed programs for lesbian elders. But, guess what, most of the $300,000 some budget for this goes to salaries of “case workers.” Or program chairs or other staff, and there is virtually no money for lesbian only events. Trans are free to run wild. I’m not saying I don’t object to women getting paid well for work. I’ve had the worst experiences of lesbians riping off my time and money believe me… However, if you have an AIDS cycle fundraiser, and you raise $8,000,000 for AIDS, just how many lesbians get those dollars? Just how many health care programs are funded by AIDS money?
    Zero. So the gay and lesbian centers have become ceo fundraising machines for non-lesbian causes.
    Every time I talk to a lesbian in Los Angeles, she reports that the center mostly serves gay men. Every time.

    Like

  47. KatieS says:

    I recently ran across these statistics, illustrating what we are talking about here. Women can generate wealth, we are good at it, and yet, men somehow always end up with it. The pattern is the same in the lesbian community as what we see in these statistics, males (gay and trans) find ways to hog the resources that lesbians generate:

    The National Women’s Law Center reports that more than 16.4 million women — more than one in eight — lived in poverty in 2009. This number included more than half a million single women with children who held full-time jobs and the more than twice as many elderly women living in poverty as elderly men. Seventeen percent of women age 65 and over live alone in poverty.

    These pathetic statistics stand in stark contrast to the value of the economic contributions made by America’s women.

    The financial performance of the Fortune 500 companies with the most women in top management significantly surpasses that of companies with fewer women leaders. Companies with more high-ranking women netted a return on equity that averaged 35 percent higher than less female-friendly counterparts and a 34 percent higher total return to shareholders. Those with the most women board members saw an average 53 percent greater return on equity, 42 percent greater return on sales and an eye-popping 66 percent greater return on invested capital.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11002/1114680-109.stm#ixzz1R9Y5dNxv

    Like

  48. KatieS says:

    Ok, on the practical side, some nuts and bolts. This is something I read about a while back. It’s a community that has organized to provide services for people who want to remain in their homes in Boston. I think this idea could be adapted to an all-woman community if women found an affordable neighborhood/place that made sense. They have worked out many details that I thought might be helpful. I noticed on the video that they had memberships that were subsidized for lower income individuals, that were $100/year, and 25% of their memberships are subsidized.

    This would not have to be only for older women, but could provide a model/mechanism for caring for women as we get older. So, FYI

    http://assets.aarp.org/external_sites/caregiving/multimedia/CG_BeaconHill.html

    Like

  49. KatieS says:

    Some other links about the village movement with more details than the video I just posted. Apparently they are being tried in various places. Now to have a women-only network.

    http://www.aarp.org/home-garden/livable-communities/info-04-2011/villages-real-social-network.html

    http://www.aarp.org/home-garden/housing/info-06-2009/ginzler_it_takes_a_village.html

    Like

  50. ALesbian says:

    The Mautner Project in DC is supportive of lesbians. Below is there Mission and Vision statements:

    Mission: Mautner Project is committed to improving the health of women who partner with women including lesbian, bisexual and transgender individuals, through direct and support service, education and advocacy.

    Vision: Mautner Project envisions a health care system that is respectful of and accessible to all without regard for their sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression. Our vision is a society in which all individuals are empowered with the knowledge to utilize these resources and to make appropriate choices for themselves.

    I’ll be in Michigan for Fest in August. I’m thinking of having an informal get together about how lesbians can best support lesbians, without the rest of the alphabet soup involved. I’ve been looking at non-profit IRS tax structures and how best to go about this. The structure that gives us the most control over membership etc. is a 501(c)7. However, it does not allow for tax deductible contributions, but it would allow a group to organize and most importantly legally discriminate as to membership.

    We can do this!

    Like

  51. Bev Jo says:

    The Romans cut down the sacred groves of the Goddess in Celtic Britain. I don’t believe in a goddess, but the worship of the forest was part of pre-patriarchal culture. So many men still want to cut all trees down.

    Like

  52. Bev Jo says:

    Yes, the Shanti Project was supposed to originally be for Lesbians and gay men.

    I really agree with what you’re saying, Sheila. It’s an outrage how much Lesbians do for so many others, and how few support us in any way. I do keep wondering about the enormous salary Kate Kendall and others must be getting.

    I’m not often around gay men, but was at a party today where I know none of the Lesbians would have agreed with me, but a gay man started talking to me, saying how the support Lesbians gave gay men would never be reciprocal. He thinks they are just too selfish and narcissistic. He also said that part of the reason that our Lesbian community in the Seventies was women only was because gay men didn’t want to be with Lesbians. Not until they needed us. (I have NEVER worked on any project for gay men.) Anyway, he also was very supportive about my politics about MTFs and FTMS, which was interesting. He likes Lesbians a lot more than gay men. Now if only more Lesbians would have this kind of awareness.

    It would be really nice, Katie, if we had more ways to help each other. But what I’ve seen is that the Lesbians who do have a lot of money and/or resources want a segregated community in terms of class. There’s a local lawyer who has Solstice parties in her fancy house, but because of my daring to write against Elliott and other MTFs, I’m no longer invited. (I have better friends than those snobs though.)

    Like

  53. KatieS says:

    I agree, BevJo, class is something that is ignored, especially in the U.S., it is minimized, but it is a huge factor. Them excluding you because you have spoken out about Elliott and other MTF’s, that is just wrong on so many levels. These lesbians do not realize how much it hurts community, including the tragedy of abandoning the youngest of us who are being tricked into disfiguring surgery and toxic chemicals. They are the losers by excluding you and other working class lesbians, but so are the young.

    It makes me think about how much class plays a role in all this. If someone buys into the class structure, they tend to trust “experts” in a certain way that those who did not grow up middle or upper class will see through more readily. I grew up inner-city poor, and though I got a college scholarship, I felt out of place with middle and upper class students. So much of it seemed very fake to me in college. I think that is part of the reason I still have skepticism about certain types of things that others just seem to buy into. Like Obama being elected and everyone like they were high on drugs, delusional thinking he would change everything like some magic dream. I told people not to bet on it, and they thought I was just being a downer. I think some of them are still in denial. The lesser of two evils, only possibly, but nothing to pin your hopes on.

    Like

  54. Bev Jo says:

    Oh Katie, that’s interesting that you grew up poor because it shows through with your warmth and intelligence. I often can recognize class when just meeting someone, based on that. Seeing through the tricks and lies is so much of a part of it, and it helps to not feel as connected to the whole system. I did vote for Obama since our lives are much worse with republicans (and an absentee ballot takes just a few minutes), but I certainly didn’t get excited since I don’t think he’s the one actually in power anyway.

    Like

    • KatieS says:

      Thank you, Bev Jo.

      I did vote for him, too. I will likely do so again, but I never expect much. Yes, I agree, he’s not the one in power.

      Like

    • Lizzy Shaw says:

      I voted for him too because the Republicans are so much worse. In 2008 I was a little more optimistic about his presidency, but now not so much. Still, he is significantly better than McCain or especially Romney. I did register as a Democrat so I could vote in the primaries in my state, but I don’t think either party has my best interests at heart. Ditto for third parties.

      I also think a lot of people thought that the president in general had a lot of power, but they forget that Congress needs to write and pass the laws first.

      Like

      • Bev Jo says:

        Yes. I think someone or someones else are in actual charge and if a president really tries to improve things he will be killed. I’m sure they are warned about this. So they are a figurehead. But still, even with massive voter fraud, and the Senate not beginning to reflect the majority of people, voting for the best choice sends a message that literally will save some lives.

        Absentee ballot is so easy. Anyone who doesn’t bother must not be worried about being personally affected by the outcome.

        Like

  55. SheilaG says:

    Yeah, social class is always shunted aside. It would help for people in this country to be much more serious about it. I identify as middle class, but have a peculiar mixed history. We all need to think about how we feel when we are out of comfort social class. For example, when I’m with upper middle class people… I’m there a lot because of the nature of my job. At any rate, I can manage to fit in, but I always feel like the token lesbian at best, or just plain uncomfortable at how the women are acting all around me.
    Little things can get to me, like the time a woman announced proudly that she had gotten a $30,000 face lift. All the women in the group cooed in approval, I was horrified. That sort of thing. So I realize that if we don’t learn, we will be just as hard to deal with as I as felt with the face lift women.
    Will social class exclude? Will we keep an open door to all classes and not create barriers to lesbian solidarity. It is actually far harder for me to deal with class issues than race issues within my own cultural context. Class in invisible, so I’m hoping that it will be made visible within lesbian discourse again in a more common way.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      You’re right, Sheila, about how classism divides us. A $30,000 face lift?!!

      To me, the main thing is to treat each other as equals and to be aware that the class privileged are taught to look down on the class-oppressed. It’s like with Butch oppression — the oppression happens whether or not a Lesbian is aware of what class you are or is aware of what a Butch is. That’s why it’s important to use the terms to have language to talk about the issues. But, like with both, many Lesbians are adamant about trying to stop our talking about it, identifying as who we are, and certainly about trying to make things equal.

      Daring to identify yourself has risks though. A Lesbian who had never met me in person, but had called me, sounded surprised when we started to talk. She said, “You called yourself working class, but you sound educated.”

      Like

  56. SheilaG says:

    I can’t think of anything more insulting than have a woman say “You sound intelligent even though you’re working class” geez. Why do people think working class = uneducated. Our entire land grand college system in America is a tribute to working class education. Anyone who reads and thinks, and writes will gain in power and voice. I think some of the dumbest women I meet, the most shut down anyway are upper middle class white women. They can be the most mindless bores ever. $30,000 face lift woman being a case in point. Working class women I know don’t play dumb, and are so much more direct, insightful and well rays of sunshine. You know right away if you are loved or hated, and emotions are honest and out there. Upper middle class or wealthy women I find often hard to read or fathom. They can be very nice and kind, but they are also amazingly self-centered so self-involved that they don’t even think other women “beneath” them are worth getting to know.
    Class is key… if we don’t talk about it we won’t know about it. And it’s hard on the internet— after getting attacked for my never het pride, the next round of insults is to call me classist. My love of poetry, my impatience with intellectual boredom…. my refusal to accept the fact that women can’t be financially literate and well paid… more hatred coming my way. I assume women are intelligent unless they show they aren’t. There is no reason all women can’t connect, and no reason there can be mutual support across all social classes. That is a hallmark of lesbian culture at its best, and I’ve personally lived in that world, so I KNOW it is possible. Hard to do in Los Angeles… very class stratified here… $30,000 face lifts and all LOL.

    Like

  57. SheilaG says:

    Geez, it’s so much easier to comment here and at Val’s than just about any place on the internet. I wonder why ? 🙂

    Like

    • KatieS says:

      It feels more like home here. 🙂 Some of the other blogs I feel more like a guest. That’s ok, I think, feeling like a guest, if there’s worthwhile conversation. Mostly they are better conversations than about radical feminism than irl, though I’m working on that and had a great conversation about serious, though not radical, feminism recently with a woman who was a feminist back in the 70’s.

      Like

  58. aaron says:

    you sound like a black man complaing to a white man. my therapist from the origenal feminist generation regardless of gentalia and surgery/hormones sees me as a woman. science says its more then gentics and gential. and under law the michagen women festival is discriminating agaisngt women who are transsexuals. and i seem to think that women who want rights who actually do have rights would deny people rights oh ya your acting like a victim like blacks do. i am neither black or white so i can see 3rd person i dont see both sides i see how reality see it it there but so tiny. and why would mean multilate themselves just to oppress you. they wouldnt this is the new feminist lies and i am sorry i fight for womens right i am a feminist but the problem with new feminist is like the blacks they want to be vindictive and do what has been done to them enslave white you done that they have more rights then whites, women be the breed winnner and mean 2nd class not there yet but its the goal . i thought feminist goal was to have equal rights if you do this your no better then your oppressors. i do know whats its like to be oppressed i am transsexual and white my black roommate who is a druggie and fundie (a contradicition right) is aloud to emotional abuse me under religion and my complex and law throws a blind eye but it says the goverment picked a religion separation church and state and infringes my religious rights and its domestic violance. so why are complaining you ahve rights so just take down the fundies and you win. and by the way i was born a transsexual or more accurate a women sceince says this but nature gave me a male body.so get over it. oh by the way i been molestates/raped again i know how it feels but stop being a victim.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      I guess you didn’t read the article. I am not a “new” feminist. I became a Lesbian Feminist over 40 years ago. I don’t care what your therapist says. Men can no more become women than you can become a bird. MTFs prove that they are not women because they are so relentlessly male in how they think and act. The surgery, when they bother to have it, doesn’t change their brains or what some might call souls. They still will not take “no” for an answer and their main focus seems to be to destroy what little that Lesbians have. And no, a boy or man who is raped still will never know what it feels like to be a raped girl or woman, with never getting the privileges a male gets in patriarcy.

      Like

  59. FeistyAmazon says:

    I like that: “It was handed to them – because the dudes in power know how damaging they are to real females. I call them the Laydees’ Auxiliary of the Patriarchy.” That’s a great comment….Laydee’s Auxiliary of the Patriarchy. I HAVE ALWAYS FELT THAT WAY AROUND MTF’s and it goes back to when they sacrificed their members(penises) to the Goddess Cybele, so they could have some of Her female power….and eventually replacing actual bio female priestesses to the Goddess to where we’re at today with men in dresses/long robes(Pope and Priests) attempting to rule the world with their religion. Their day has come and gone..and so much blood in it’s wake too.

    The most obnoxious ones are the ones who try to prove they’re ‘as much woman as we are, as much Lesbian as we are’. That is so tiresome, when as dudez they could have had the other 90% of the women in the world. Now they want the last 10% that are largely offlimits, except the sellouts…
    -FeistyAmazon

    Like

  60. SheilaG says:

    Geez, these guys can’t even write. What a pathetic bunch of invaders.

    Like

  61. Jess says:

    So. . .misogyny is bad and self evident of a problem. . .but misandry is noble?

    If you have experienced abuse and become a lesbian out of politics–not desire–you are noble,

    but if I have had equal experiences with men and women and end up attracted to–and choosing to date–both men and women, I am a brainwashed traitor?

    And science–of any kind–performed by men or women–is irrelevant, and reality is only based on our individual perception, grouped together?

    Am I incapable of critical thought? Can I only know “truth” if I have experienced male violence?

    There is no such thing as multiple sexes?

    Our personalities are only shaped by our hormones?

    No men have low T, no women have high T?

    As a woman growing up in this society, I am incapable of critical thought?

    Shit, and I thought I was a feminist. I guess I can’t meet these standards.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Did you actually read what I wrote? Doesn’t sound like it. But it does sound like you are the one objecting to “critical” thought and believe that challenging the mainstream status quo of privilege and power (being male, choosing to be het or bisexual, and saying no to female-hating, etc.) is somehow a terrible unfeminist thing.

      You have to choose to love and desire other females to be a Lesbian. Choosing out of politics alone does not work or make sense.

      Of course there are Intersex people, but trans are not Intersex and often appropriate Intersex identity like they do Lesbian identity.

      It’s not about hormones at all, or very little. It is way more than that, in terms of the unchangeable differences between males and females, and is observable in other species.

      “Science” is in the mind of the money-maker. The highest payer gets the results they request. Worship of what is called “science” has never been good for females, and especially not Lesbians. True exploration of nature, health, the earth, other beings, etc. is very important, but you have to use common sense about all of it and always question what does not make sense.

      Like

  62. SheilaG says:

    Jess didn’t read the article. And lesbians are lesbians because we love women. Women who date men and women are bisexual, they are not lesbians. Seems pretty simple to me. Being a lesbian has nothing to do with men at all, it is about incredible love on every level between women; it is so powerful, that just being with lesbians is a completely different experience than being with men or straight women… socially that is. A true lesbian bond knows no separation, it is a meeting of true minds. Women who choose to love women, and this is a huge act of courage, because society wants to force women to partner with men and be sexually available to men. I’m not interested in bi women or het women, and there is a huge difference on this front.

    Like

  63. Bev Jo says:

    Thank you, Sheila, for your eloquence! I agree!!!

    Like

  64. SheilaG says:

    What is a lesbian? A woman who sexually, intellectually, spiritually and emotionally loves women. LOVES WOMEN, makes love to women. Lesbians also include women who love women, whether this is acted out sexually or not. Women can be lesbians because of their physical and/or deep emotional attraction to women. Women who don’t feel these things exclusively with other women are NOT lesbians. They can’t say they are. They are bi-sexual, or they are males pretending to be lesbians.
    Women don’t “become lesbians” because of some dumb thing men have done to them. Women are lesbians because of a very deep sexual attraction to other women. We are attracted to women who are attracted to us. Speaking only for myself here, I am NOT attracted to het women, I am NOT attracted to bi women— the experience of attraction is not about women who don’t devote 100% of their beings to loving fully other women. Women might be attracted to me for whatever reason, but if they are not lesbians, I can actually feel the difference of the attraction. It’s like knowing the difference between something geniune as opposed to something that is imitation. We know the real from the manufactured. As a butch woman I am attracted to women who don’t delute their beings to being the contructions of male supremacy. Feminine is the slave state of women, but it is not the powerful woman who is free. Feminine is a colonized state of look and being. One can feel very little around an imitation, compared to how one feels in the presense of the authentic. There is no debate about lesbian existence, and we choose this great life. Women are supposed to sell their bodies to men for food or shelter, but lesbians simply passionately love women. We do not receive social support, or praise from the culture for our great love of women. In fact, butch dykes are hated and degraded by just about everyone. But we elevate ourselves to a higher standard of being. Our bodies, minds and souls are not for sale.

    Like

    • Jess says:

      No, I certainly read the article. And the rest of your site. I’m just really hoping to clarify that you are all speaking for yourselves as individuals, or a small collective of like minded individuals, and not for all lesbians, feminists or women. And I really hope you don’t think that your experiences and desires are universal.

      On another note, I notice you mention something about there having never been a female serial killer? Can you explain this, please? I recall hearing about a few sexually violent, female serial killers in my life time. . .

      Like

  65. Bev Jo says:

    Well, then you just came to bait and accuse me of saying things I didn’t say. I really hope you don’t think all women agree with you. It seems that Radical Lesbian Feminism is very threatening to you, yet the alternative is to support men against women. Why are you here at all? Since you chose this article to respond to, I’m guessing you also support men appropriating Lesbian identity and destroying our last female only space?

    What woman was a serial killer? The men are countless. Poor Aileen Wuornos certainly wasn’t.

    And you are a woman?

    Like

  66. SheilaG says:

    This is radical lesbian feminist space, it is the point of view of women who want freedom to love women.
    We are not interested in liberal feminism, in getting along with men, or having dumb comments like “oh women serial killers too, women rape too” that is just so deluded. We are looking to the great love affair that is women for each other. We know that lesbian feminism its radical notion that we love one another threatens more male identified lesbians, and male identified lesbians have plenty of room all over the Internet. But this space is beautiful, a gift of the woman who helped bring the world into being that so many women shun today.

    Like

  67. Bev Jo says:

    Thank you so much, Sheila!!! xoxoxoxo

    Like

  68. SheilaG says:

    Well my dear friend, I just have to xoxoxoxox right back at you!!!

    Like

  69. Leah says:

    Definately very interesting read…My words here may probably have little to no significance since I am by definition “transwoman” and oh how I hate that word, but everything has a label. Ones who truely grasp at womanhood wouldn`t even use that word, but just only respond to “woman” or “female” unless necessary as one goes through the transitioning journey. Yes, I will have to agree that 80% of them..us..are not serious. I don`t know if it`s because they`re clueless and was only a ‘choice’ instead of ‘fate’ or some sadistic reason. I`m bi, which means normally it matters nothing what the person is equipped with. Men do scare me a lot, as much I`d probably enjoy company of one, not once have I felt encouraged to be with one to get past my insecurity. Other women I just connect a lot better to since most men have one thing on their mind. I`ve been told by men “You`re with women because you can relate to them and feel open, at level, and secure” as a way for them to ‘point out my problem’, and it is of such irony. Not my fault I trust other women more, maybe if one can show me something than being “masculine” then I would perhaps think about it. Men are crazy, definately, and all the good ones are either taken or only into other men. lol

    The thing about the mass murderer and other things are creepy, and having the prosthesis or whatever is disturbing. I don`t know, I`d have to say I am definately female, just not looking the part yet. I can already tell that in a few years men will try to have at me and I probably going to still only want to try to be with women…Does that make me lesbian? Oh well, it`s whoever I can find compatability with.

    Awesome post Bev Jo, hopefully I`m not an enemy of you. 🙂
    Not all of us are horrifying, but most are, I`ve spoken to others and surely some of them I tend to move along going “uhm, something just felt out of place”. Being a lesbian is all about love and hits you like a bolder, I wouldn`t bother explaining it to men and even some women as I`ve learned. It`s like an only child being explained a life with siblings, hit and miss. lol

    I just don`t associate myself with the wrong ones, like I do other people.
    Some of us are serious, just hiding instead, we rather be women than transwomen. 😉
    There is a space for everyone, hopefully I can fit into the ones I prefer to live in.

    -hugs-

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Leah, I want this to be a space for women, but when you ask if you are a Lesbian, I do feel I have to answer. No, men cannot become Lesbians or women. You say you are a “transwoman” but I don’t believe in “transwomen” any more than I believe in other myths. People can’t change sex any more than they can change species. When those in a power position claim the identity of those they oppress, it’s even more wrong. Well, I explain in my post.

      You say “I am definitely female, just not looking the part yet,” but what does that mean? I’m guessing you’re meaning about fitting into male stereotypes of women.

      You sound well-meaning. If you don’t want to identify as male, could you make up another definition for yourself that doesn’t take from women or Lesbians? That way we could be allies, and you wouldn’t be hurting Lesbians or women.

      Like

      • Leah says:

        I am a woman, afterall what resides behind your chest and between your ears define who you are. Appearances, labels, and stereotypes as much I dislike them I do find myself become weary once a while and succumb to what society has chiseled. Other women do judge me some times, but wonderfully so minor compared to men. My last partner was a straight female who knows I am a woman, so I`m now only just best friends with her and see each other as “sisters”. At the same time I been dealing with 2 guys who knows how to push certain buttons, often I can`t speak to them just to avoid most of it. So essentially I am aware of how crude men can be, I even express my resentment to my psuedo-sister towards men while she struggles to make things work with her current man. My newest partner is awesome, grew attached enough to sit and tell her how I felt. She at first asked if I was telling the truth on “born with male parts?” because of what I was saying to her, and I told her “I had to share it, had put it up front and wait for a possible negative reaction”. She told me she never dates men, clearly hinting that she doesn`t exactly like them. I said to her that I have so far seen no real joy with having a man, and I have a better connection and emotional attraction to women. That statement was all she needed to hear perhaps, as afterwards she expressed that I already then know why she only pursues women. I have her, and my recent new best friend supporting me which I may also add is impossible with a man. Women`s space, I am part of it too, just I`m sitting in the corner of the room feeling a little disconnected until I find opportunity to fit in more. Unlike with men, what you have to say about me means a great deal more. I do not ever intend to hurt anyone, and any time it happens it`s on accident with me freaking out to fix it on site. I`m young, plenty of learning and growing to do I suppose. I`m no invader, I`m an outsider trying to seek warmth from within and expecting trials before allowed completely in.

        <3,
        Leah

        Like

  70. BadDyke says:

    “We are looking to the great love affair that is women for each other. ”

    Beautiful words. The soul and centre of what we are.

    Like

  71. Bev Jo says:

    I agree. It is so true, and Sheila is so eloquent!

    Like

  72. BadDyke says:

    “I’m just really hoping to clarify that you are all speaking for yourselves as individuals, or a small collective of like minded individuals, and not for all lesbians, feminists or women. And I really hope you don’t think that your experiences and desires are universal.”

    Why this individualistic nonsense? We’ve heard it all before, from the menz who said that our experiences as females in a male-dominated society were meaningless generalisations, that what we said as women about what it meant to be women in this society was meaningless.

    Looked at another way — if you don’t include the men, your statements are meaningless, if you don’t include straight women, your statements are meaningless, if you don’t include the lipstick lesbians and the leather women, and the surgically-constructed simulacra who then claim they are lesbians too, then your statements are meaningless……………….

    Except that doesn’t stop us from feeling the joy when we make those connections with other lesbians like us.

    Like

  73. Bev Jo says:

    You’re right, BadDyke! It’s the same old crap. It’s also extremely controlling, patronizing, and parental. We must be delusional in noticing that there is a Radical Feminist movement still strong across the earth. And how dare we question and challenge the women and Lesbians who are selling us and themselves out?

    Those who collaborate can’t stand that we say the truth. And one thing that most enrages the female impersonators is that they can lie, threaten, pose, and pretend — they can try to use our politics against us to pressure us to betray ourselves and other women by accepting men as women — but they will NEVER experience intimacy with any Lesbian, by definition — because any woman who would be intimate with them is not a Lesbian.

    Yes, what we have is amazing. We dare to think independently, we reject all the female-hating and Lesbian-hating myths and lies. We dare to say no. And therefore wonderful whole new worlds open up, including finding each other.

    Like

  74. S. says:

    The following is from the National Center for Lesbian Rights:

    http://www.nclrights.org/site/PageServer?pagename=issue_transgender

    “NCLR has advocated for transgender clients and issues since its inception. Transgender people and their families face many of the same legal issues confronted by lesbian, gay, and bisexual people and families, and often encounter additional obstacles based on stereotypes, misinformation and, in many cases, open hostility. NCLR is working to change that.

    NCLR is proud to have been the first LGBT legal organization to launch a Transgender Law Project, which later became an organization in its own right, the Transgender Law Center. Today, we are a national leader in shaping transgender law, and our Legal Director, Shannon Minter, is recognized as a leading architect and visionary of the transgender rights movement.”

    The legal director isn’t a female.
    http://www.nclrights.org/site/PageServer?pagename=About_Staff_ShannonMinter

    These women are so ignorant it’s rather frightening. In my opinion, for the sake of lesbians everywhere, and the very survival of lesbian identity itself, this organization should immediately drop the word lesbian from its title. It should stop pretending that it serves the needs of lesbians. With puberty suppressing drugs, little tomboy girls that are slapped with a label of “gender dysphoria” at age eight or nine, can start their “transitioning” to FTM (female to male ) just before they hit puberty. While these ignorant “lesbians” coddle the trans activists, a whole generation of future lesbians are well on their way to becoming transmen. They watch Chaz Bono on “Dancing With the Stars” and can’t wait to get both their healthy breasts surgically removed and to start testosterone. A couple of weeks ago, there was a Washington Post article and video about a five year old “transgender” girl. Both parents in this video already call this little girl “he”. If one listens carefully, at the end of the video, the mother says that the little five year old girl already asked about sex reassignment surgery. Where did this five year old girl get this idea? I also urge the reader to google, “Trans Kids Purple Rainbow”.

    There are three things that we do know. First. children are being given labels of “gender dysphoria” at much earlier ages. Second, with things like puberty suppressing drugs, “transitioning” can start right before puberty. Third, there has been a dramatic increase in the number of FTMs “transitioning”. Parents who are uncomfortable with having a little, rambuntous tomboy girl are eager to jump on the trans bandwagon as a way to assuage their fears at having a lesbian daughter somewhere down the road. Historically, sex reassignment surgery has been a way to erase gay identity. Indeed, this is going on in Iraq as I type this post.

    I want to specifically discuss FTMs because there are two things that many lesbians simply refuse to acknowledge. The act of transitioning does, indeed, erase lesbian identity, and in the process women’s bodies are surgically and/or chemically altered. To me, it’s interesting how the term “transitioning” is becoming part of our every day vocabulary. As it relates to FTMs, doesn’t this mean (1.) elective masectomies for healthy young women (2.) a life time comittment to testosterone (3.) the surgical mutilation of healthy female genitalia. For some strange reason, some women believe that the mutilation of female bodies is something new, revolutionary, and trendy. From Chinese footbinding to female genital mutilation in Africa and other parts of the world, the mutilation of female bodies never completely disappears. It appears to be a constant throughout history. It disappears for awhile, but it always reappears in another form. Now, reasonable people are told that misogyny plays no role whatsoever in the explosion in the number of young girls who are eager to get their healthy breasts removed. No, we aren’t buying it. At Dirtywhiteboi’s blog, one parent stated, “I would rather my daughter grow up to be a transman and get the respect that comes from being a man than be steered to becoming a carpetmuncher that gets no respect.” This parent’s words were clear, precise, and frank. He or she would rather have his or her daughter undergo mutilating surgeries than be a carpetmuncher who gets no respect.

    Who will be around to do all the pro bono work for these genetic females who later come to regret the puberty suppressing drugs, mutilating surgeries, and years of testosterone? Since it doesn’t impact the trans community, these women will be swept under the rug.

    I’ve had people tell me that lesbians are already an endangered species. As more and more girls line up to “transition”, and lesbian identity is completely erased, ignorant women who call themselves “lesbian” blindly follow the trans activists to their very own extinction.

    Damn you.

    Like

  75. jane hathaway says:

    Leah, you didn’t answer Bev’s question. Bev said, “You say *I am definitely female, just not looking the part yet,* but what does that mean? I’m guessing you’re meaning about fitting into male stereotypes of women.” Leah, all you said is that you are seeking our “warmth,” energy and love, and that men are abhorrent. Leah, that doesn’t make you a woman–it makes you a male who recognizes what men are.

    Like

    • Leah says:

      Oh…sorry.
      “You say ‘I am definitely female, just not looking the part yet.’ but what does that mean? I’m guessing you’re meaning about fitting into male stereotypes of women.”

      Uhm, well I would think changing my body to better match who I am should be a goal.
      I am a woman, on the inside where it should count. It`s there, exists for those who look closely.
      I can emulate ‘male’ mentality, habits, or behaviors; I have tried, just to hide it and survive until my opportunity to correct things arrive. My last partner couldn`t handle it because she wanted a man, and I am precisely not that. My new partner loves that I`m a woman, she is aware of my situations, she is looking foward to it as much as I am. The beauty of it is she still gives me security and company, without the crazy aggression and intimidation (men scare me sorta).

      With so many people doing bizzare things for weird or sadistic reasons, I guess it`s understandable to not be convinced of any bit.

      I remember someonetelling me the last things I needed to hear last week.
      The nonesense of “You`re still a man” plus more than a paragraph of forced opinion, I don`t buy it.
      God made a mistake on what my fate should be, but he still gives me what I need to fix that.

      “Just not looking the part yet”, well I should`ve added I don`t feel physically it either.
      I`m all feminine, female, woman, and I would like for that to be reflected on.
      There is no sexual desire or satisfaction from it either, but rather distraught from not having it.
      I wake up just thinking about when my doctor will hand me the supplements that`ll solve everything…yes I feel ‘everything’. I know for a fact taking them the next morning I will instantly feel a relief and will only get better from there. In a few years, I can be myself for the first time, and nobody will ever look at me the wrong way again and nobody will ever know of my past life.

      If what is between any person`s legs didn`t ever dictate “boy or girl”, then I wouldn`t see an issue. However, that isn`t that case…I`m a woman, and it is painful to constantly fight others on it.

      I`m not a man, it`s not my world, I want nothing associated with them.
      If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck…not me, I`m actually a swan, just happen I`m being mistaken as the ugly duckling and some things just need to happen.

      I`ll just have to see what happens, right now a sitting duck…pun not intended.

      <3,
      Leah

      Like

  76. jane hathaway says:

    Leah. Your saying “I’m all feminine” is insulting, not because I don’t believe you are “feminine,” but because femininity itself is male-defined, supports patriarchy and therefore supports male dominance, and furthermore, femininity is artificial and STEREOTYPICAL.So when you said, “I would think changing my body to better match who I am” you are again dealing in stereotypes. MATCH?? match how. You can not answer that question without using sexist stereotypes. If you respond, and if Bev Jo lets you respond, please just answer this, without going into how hard your life has been. That is just filler, and frankly uninteresting to me, when it comes to getting to the nitty-gritty of your words and what they mean, when you assert you are female.

    Like

  77. BadDyke says:

    “I am a woman, on the inside where it should count.” This is the seemingly simple, but actually very dangerous statement. It goes right back to the question of what IS it to be a woman, and what is it to be a lesbian.

    Whether you believe that women are fundamentally different from men doesn’t matter that much actually when it comes to disagreeing with this statement. If you’re biologically male, you’re not a woman. Even if you had some sort of slightly feminized brain, you’d still be a male biologically in every cell of your body, and RAISED as a male in our society with all that means. You can’t just claim that your magical inner womanliness over-rides that male socialisation (plus the years of male hormones coursing through your system if you also believe various things about their effects).

    What WOMAN is isn’t so simple as ‘innate gender’. We instead have our biology, our bodies, then on top of that we have the experience, from the moment we were born, of being TREATED differently because we are biologically female. You can’t create that female life-experience by wishing, just as you can’t create (or indeed un-create) a female body by mutilating surgery.

    Lesbian then is loving that in other women and in yourself.

    “I`m all feminine, female, woman..” Only in terms of what MEN think a woman is or should be.

    Like

  78. BadDyke says:

    “and nobody will ever look at me the wrong way again and nobody will ever know of my past life.”

    Sorry, but that is just fantasy. Women will be able to spot you, just that too many are too polite to say so.

    Like

  79. SheilaG says:

    Feminine is a male created idea; it’s what men think women are, and it is the very heart of male supremacy. Feminine is what the dominator class invented, and every trait men hated they assigned to feminine women– that is colonized women. Men colonize women, men steal emotional love from women, invent ideas of what “woman” is. I don’t share space with men within a lesbian context. I am in love with women, I have no use for men who think they are women inside, no you’re not Leah, you are simply a thief and an appropriator, nothing new there. You simply want to colonize lesbian space and steal lesbian energy, the way all men seem to do these days.
    The trans movement is yet another manifestation of male domination and appropriation. It’s just as absurd as it would be for me to “claim” African American identity after being raised white. It would be as absurd as me claiming to be Chinese, and then insisting that I am Chinese, and that I am “acting Chinese” on the inside. It looks like white people who played Chinese characters in pre-civil rights era Hollywood movies.
    It is the drag queen mentality of appropriating a sterotypical concept of what men think “feminine” is. Feminine is the dead give-a-way word the trans colonizers use. They like to “dress up” as a feminine construct that was invented by the dominator male class to steal sexual, emotional, and intellectual energy from women.
    As lesbians, we know that the male is a fraud, and that no lesbian would ever truly love a man, or a male impersonator either. Any woman who does this is simply bi-sexual, she is NOT A LESBIAN. Of course you prefer the company of women Leah, because you are a thief. You steal women’s emotional energy, and live on the good graces of a gentle class of human, but you ARE MALE, and you are a colonizer and a dominator, and now you think you can steal the lesbian emotional/sexual soul. You actually believe you have a right to do this. In my world, we would take you bodily out of the room and THROW YOU OUT!
    Go stay with the dominator class. How dare you appropriate lesbian identity! You are the colonizer, you are the dominator class, and now you want to steal even more. In my book, I give you 25 years hard labor in prison for stealing the greatest gift of women– the lesbian soul. Hard labor in a prison with brutal men where you belong!!
    I don’t give a damn about how “hard” your life is, I don’t give a damn about your male body, I don’t give a damn about your patriarchal contaminating ideas of “feminine”– what I wonder is why you guys keep on invading sacred lesbian space? You are nothing but a eunich sent to guard the harem for the patriarchy, and you prey on women’s good nature, women’s gentle selves. You insinuate yourself into female spaces thinking that women aren’t uncomfortable with you. Women aren’t going to confront you, because women often just are silent even as the pigs invade our space. You take advantage of women, and you have no idea that women don’t want you there at all. You perceive silence as acceptance, and it isn’t, and because you are a man you’ll never be able to understand that silent women don’t want you near them.
    Feminine indeed, the word betrays your very being, you are NOT a lesbian, you are a soul stealer, and I give you another 25 years hard labor for your grand theft!!

    Like

  80. Bev Jo says:

    To Leah: Women are less likely to challenge men claiming to be women out of fear of hurting anyone’s feelings and because we are bullied and threatened with being raped and killed for daring to say, “No, you are still a man.” I haven’t heard yet of a man being threatened like this.

    It’s not about “judging” — it’s about saying no.

    When you are in “women’s space,” you have destroyed it, because it is then no longer “women’s” space. That special feeling you crave there? Women and girls and Lesbians even more need it desperately, but you want access to it, so the hell with the rest of us. You take it for yourself and deprive us of it. And you don’t even think about that?

    God? You believe in a male god and of course assume we must too. Well, I don’t. And no, your male surgeons can’t “fix” your male god’s “mistake.” Nothing can make women out of men, just like nothing can make “Lizard man” a lizard. It is way more than “what is between any person`s legs” — it’s brain, heart and soul, and you reek of maleness.

    You say, “I do not ever intend to hurt anyone, and any time it happens it`s on accident with me freaking out to fix it on site,” but your preventing us from female-only space hurts us, and I can only wonder what your “freaking out” means. Is that throwing a scene, disrupting even more than you already are doing, to make yourself even more the center of attention?

    With your male sense of entitlement, you assume you “will be allowed completely in.” But why? Why should we ever accept you as female? Why are you commenting here if you did not read what I wrote? Why are you refusing to take no for an answer?

    Have you not noticed how this is all about you? All about how you feel, what you want, what you insist on, regardless of who you hurt and the harm you are doing. That is so very selfish, and so very, very male of you.

    Like

    • Leah says:

      I am not a “he”, in real life I do not even respond to that, it`s unsulting.

      jane hathaway has taken my words incorrectly, being feminine isn`t about dominance…it never has.
      I have feelings, thoughts, and conscience. They`re deep and dynamic, no one side exclusively expressed. One day I want a bowl of salad, the next day I rather have a hamburger because I felt like having something yummy and didn`t hurt any. Couple of days ago I felt like taking a nap, then woke up and was up for some jogging around the appartments. Why do I do these, because I felt like it, no explaination. My psuedo-sister couple of days ago was like “nap…sounds good”, yet her boyfriend shrugs going “why?”. I told him that I just wanted to take a nap, my sister could see my point but no man ever will. With my partner I just be with her, some times we`re just sitting around together and other times we cause trouble. We don`t ask each other, never need to, we just know. We just click, and it`s so simple too. I am a woman, and know what it means to be one. Men can`t grasp at just simple sense of reasoning, and they can only think at a certain one predictable level that just interchanges once a great while. My psuedo-sister calls me often, for morale support and understanding, helping her retain her strength. I know exactly what feminine is, and what it means, just the same I know what it means to be a woman. Male-identified also means “stay home all day, have kids, be all meek and submissive” as well go by their image, behaviors, and much more and I am far from it. I don`t care what guys things, it`s about being comfortable in my own skin, and right now I am not. I go by my own standards, which is exactly what a woman does. Men are to rigid and think on a narrow line of structure, I do not. I am all feminine because I choose to be, and that just means I choose to live differently. Maybe I should explain the phrase “looking the part”, I meant as in “obvious presentation” to pacify those who refuse to look closer. I actually mean “looking closer”, watch me for a while and take what you sense. Also I know what it means to be lesbian too, which is exactly what me and my new lover is and feel. I was part of the space before I even spoke, and before I even started to gather where my place is in the world. I come here, immediately with saying I was not born with uterus and before anything else was said or noted already being taken at a typical face value. Right here as a woman I have shown it, with the interesting response that I am all too familiar with…that normally comes from men, species that just can`t gasp anything in the world that isn`t just “black & white”. I am ok with that, I must say it`s in your favor. You were never questioned like I was, and straight women often question me too since they often chose to live along “a man`s world”. The ones who see me as a woman, are the ones who have had it stripped from them some point in their life or have decided to live against what they`re told–especially by men. I wasn`t stripped from it, it was never given to me, and the void there is felt. I have to be strong about it, I have to take care of my psuedo-sister in teaching true womanhood, which in return help me learn things too. She grew up from her parents the “male-identified” stuff and that is all. I am teaching her to be happy for herself, with her own choices, no seeking validation, no taking value from status or image. We share a motto, “live, love, laugh”…it speaks for itself. I give her support, security, love, and care…she admits to me I am the only one who does it for her, yet she tells me it`s conflicting because she still believes those things is what she should be getting from a man. I remember telling her that my older biological sister who is almost old enough to be my mother had raised me differently, to tell apart those things, and understand their true meaning. I also along-side with my first ex lover in massaschusettes were displeased from an LGBT pride parade, because it`s just an attack on itself–conjured again from just image. She is also a feminist as well her mother and sisters, and supported my decisions, feelings, and path…just the same, they knew I am not impersonating. I don`t seek women validation, I just don`t like to be shunned, it`s an exiled feeling from my own kind. One last thing, men force their thoughts and desires, I do not…I only ask equal opportunity, just as much as you do. It isn`t fair to be told quite “like it is”, you wouldn`t want someone telling you something against your feelings, thoughts, or will either. My new lover so far is the only one I feel who has completely taken me in, no questions asked, no assumptions, and no judgement. I am now just waiting to have support from others too, and not keep allowing the world to contantly fight me and have her bear all the weight of it. Like myself, she is unique, from her likes and dislikes to her personality…and it was one of my biggest things I love about her. She asked why I do love her, told her “Since when it`s a decision, it`s a feeling, just something my heart wanted. Not just the awesome things, but the flaws too that make the awesome things be much more noticable”.

      Sorry for the long typing, didn`t mean to monologue, I felt there was no short answer, examples had to be given. Right now I could use some time with my lover, where nothing else needs to matter. 😀

      <3,
      Leah

      Like

  81. Bev Jo says:

    Thank you so much, Jane. You said that so well!!! And he still did not answer what “looking the part” means. They never know what to say because it means looking like a male-identified caricature which is what men demand women look like — the opposite of true female.

    Thank you also, Bad Dyke, for saying that so clearly. Yes, we can and do spot female impersonators all the time.

    And thank you, Sheila, also!!! You are so absolutely right and so well-said.

    Thank you, champions of females!

    Like

  82. SheilaG says:

    Again I will say this: lesbian only space is the great and perfect love affair between women. It is the passionate love of equals, it is the passionate soul of all that’s true and beautiful about the world.
    Lesbian existence is for its own sake, and trans are trying to destroy this because male to trans are men.
    Men hate the love of women and always try to intrude upon it.
    It’s why when women fall in love with each other collectively, we come together in revolution against all of patriarchy.
    But it starts in perfect sacred love between women. The love of women is above anything the dominator class can imagine, because male dominators don’t know any other behavior. Men can’t love women, they only want to own and co-opt the female for their own perverted purposes.
    The minute men invade women only space, it ceases to be, the male has destroyed the space. No man can ever know this.
    Just as het women don’t know the perfect love of women, and don’t understand the lesbian desire for this passionate transcendent love—free of the threat of rape, free of the imposition of child production.
    Spend just an hour with a lesbian in deep conversation with another lesbian– that all encompassing gaze, the look of intense seriousness, the deadly seriousness of two women who fully honor each other and fully are in love with each other. It is a very happy occasion this love, it is so rare, so precious, so magnificent. No one knows this love but lifelong lesbians, really, we are the only ones who truly know what this is. We celebrate this love here; it is rare.

    Like

  83. S. says:

    “I am a woman, afterall what resides behind your chest and between your ears define who you are. Appearances, labels, and stereotypes as much I dislike them I do find myself become weary once a while and succumb to what society has chiseled. Other women do judge me some times, but wonderfully so minor compared to men. My last partner was a straight female who knows I am a woman, so I`m now only just best friends with her and see each other as “sisters”.

    Leigh, no you are not a woman. No, we are not sisters. Before I commence with my righteous rant, I want to make one thing clear. Transwomen are worthy of dignity and respect like all human kind. Moreover, I firmly believe that transwomen deserve legal protections from discrimination in health care, education, housing, and employment. I know transwomen are victims of discrimination and harassment and so are lesbians. Still, we aren’t the same, and I’m tired of pretending we are. Women were fighting for our voting rights and reproductive health care while wealthy white, upper class, male cross dressers were still playing dress up. Leigh, this is where I draw the line so you know exactly where I stand. I’m tired of transwomen occupying every inch of lesbian space to the point that we can’t swing a dead cat without bumping into you. I don’t mean to insult felines. It’s just an expression. Most MTFs I’ve come across still have the remnants of male arrogance that never completely goes away. Many transwomen are more catty and petty than straight women. Besides the obvious biological, physiological, and genetic differences between XX and XY, women have entirely different life experiences than transwomen. Leigh, do you need pap smears, or do you menstruate? Leigh, can you get pregnant, or have you ever used birth control? In addition to reproducing future generations and nurturing the young, mitochondrial DNA is passed down from the mother. The mitochondria in your cells are a gift from your mother. Leigh, your existence on earth wouldn’t be possible without women. By the way, sex reassignment surgery is a male invention. My vagina is not a neo-vagina. A neo-vagina is a male invention, and has no other purpose than to be prodded by a penis. An actual vagina is an organ not merely a hole or receptacle for penetration. Babies emerge through an actual vagina to meet the outside world. The vagina, cervix, and uterus are all connected, and they have a job to do. What does a neo-vagina do? It’s nothing more than an artificially man-made receptacle. I’m sorry to tell you this. I hope it doesn’t hurt your feelings, but it’s true. So, here is some reading material about the neo-vagina. It’s called the Neo-Vagina Monologues. By the way, it’s very boring. I hope you enjoy it. http://factcheckme.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/the-neo-vagina-monologues/

    As to the statement, “Other women do judge me sometimes, but wonderfully so minor compared to men.” See, that is the problem. Women have foolishly let transwomen into space, into our organizations, and into our lives. I wish someone would tell me how this has benefitted women. In reality, this hasn’t done one darn thing for us. Frankly, I’m tired of it. When transwomen continue to harass Vancouver Rape Relief, I’m about fed up. Some transwoman had the gall to whine because female rape victims didn’t want to be counseled by a transwoman who transitioned at the age of thirty. The rape victims were female rape victims not transwomen. This is lunacy, and most people know it. After the “Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Trans Women” which excluded FAAB (females assigned at birth), I’ve had just about enough of transwomen. Even at Planned Parenthood of Toronto transwomen have to have their own little support group because they feel so oppressed because lesbians won’t sleep with them. The cotton ceiling refers to lesbians. In “overcoming” and “breaking down sexual barriers” of lesbians, lesbians aren’t even allowed in room. This workshop was like spitting in the face of lesbians. Leigh, let me tell you a secret. We have never really saw transwomen as actual women. I mean deep down we never bought into it. Women are conditioned by society to be pleasant and nice to everyone. This is our major weakness. Lesbians can’t even have one weekend a year to have music festival without transwomen throwing a hissy fit. At the GLBT center where I live, there are three transgender groups, but not one lesbian group. In reality, the “Women’s Group” is just another transgender group because now “women” includes “all self-identified women”. That is, people with or without penises. I still don’t understand how transgender is both a distinct community and at the same time exactly like females.

    It’s bad enough that women were so naïve as to openly welcome transwomen into our lives. Now, transwomen are actually claiming that they are lesbian. For example, this is from MTF lesbians:
    Name: Zoe
    Age: 43
    Location: NY, USA
    Gender ID: MTF
    Sexual Orientation: Lesbian
    Operative status: HRT, Pre-op
    Relationship Status: It’s complicated
    http://mtf-lesbians.livejournal.com/

    Again, transwomen are worthy of respect like all humans, but we are tired of you occupying every inch of lesbian space.

    Like

  84. Bev Jo says:

    To Leah: No, you insult us by insisting you are female. And then to compare us to men.

    You have no idea how questioned we were.

    Again, it is all about you. No concern for those whose identity you appropriate. No respect for our no. As I said, very typically selfish, entitled male. You are wasting our time. Read my post and read what others here have said. Being with a woman is not unusual at all for men, but that does not make you a Lesbian. You will never know what it is like to be with a Lesbian or to be a Lesbian.

    Thank you, Sheila! xoxo

    Like

  85. SheilaG says:

    The brain dead really are brain dead Bev.

    Like

  86. Bev Jo says:

    Leah is now banned. He had his time here, pressuring us to accept him as a Lesbian, and we responded. Not one word of support for real women or Lesbians from him — but just lectures about what he wanted and demanded from us. He’s begun comparing us to men. That’s it. He proved my post.

    Again, men can never become women any more than they can change species. Similarly, white people cannot become People of Color and have no right intruding into safe spaces and organizations that People of Color have created for themselves. Appropriating the identity of someone you oppress is oppressive and invasive. It shows no love or caring for the people you are taking from. As Lesbians, we have very little as it is. Men have always tried to invade our spaces and intrude. Now, some of them claim to be women. We are not fooled and continue to say no.

    S., his name is Leah, not Leigh. I agree with most of what you said, but to make this truly a safe space for women daring to say no to these men, I want to say again that many of us refuse to call them “transwomen.” They are not women of any kind. Part of how they have conned and pressured the women who accept them as women into supporting an obvious lie is that many people just don’t think clearly or deeply: “If he’s a ‘transwoman,’ then he must be some kind of woman and so we don’t have a right to say no to his coming into women only space, performing porny commentary on Lesbians, re-writing our history, taking over our organizations, etc.” It sounds like we really agree about how they have used women’s caring and concern for anyone claiming pain against us, but I’m thinking that in a way you are trying also to not hurt their feelings by agreeing to call them “transwomen.”

    I think if we really do know that they are not and cannot ever be women, then we have to not acquiesce to any part of their demands. So I will not call then “women” or “female.” And any comment here that does that, I will object to and re-explain why.

    I also have to disagree with saying that men posing as women “are worthy of dignity and respect like all of human kind.” All animals, including humans are worthy of dignity and respect. But I would not say that about specific groups who harm others. The group of men appropriating our identity, AS A GROUP, do not deserve our respect, any more than do republicans or other right wing groups. I consider M2Ts as Men’s Right Activists, who are male supremacists of the worst kind. All of us who dare to post in support of women only space are threatened with rape and death, so no, I refuse to “respect” these men.

    I also do not agree that they “deserve legal protections from discrimination in health care, education, housing, and employment” as a “SPECIFIC GROUP” separate from what other men may get. Please everyone note that I am not saying they should be discriminated against, but am objecting to special treatment that is like what white people demand when they claim “reverse discrimination” as a means to take even more from the people they oppress. When you take a privileged group (men) who are actively organizing to harm an oppressed group (Lesbians and women), they do not deserve legal support which would help their intent to harm us. One example is how the trans cult uses legal and other means to prevent Radical Feminists from organizing and meeting, such as when they pressure Conway Hall in England to cancel the Radical Feminist Conference. Another example is these men gaining legal access to women’s restrooms. Any women’s or Lesbian group that states it’s for women only is attacked by the trans cult.

    Trans already have more legal support than do women. They have more access and support from specifically “Lesbian” organizations like The National Center for Lesbian Rights. They get more respect and concern than women and Lesbians get as trans and because they are men.

    It’s a standard line for trans to complain about how they are harassed attacked, as if we are responsible, when we all know that it is other men who are attacking them.

    Anyway, it does sound like we really agree, S., but I just want to clarify that we as an oppressed people do not owe our oppressors anything.

    Like

  87. Bev Jo says:

    I want to also make it clear I appreciate your comments, S!

    I am not able to stop Leah from posting, but am able to delete, so this will be interesting since I’m going out to the Dyke March.

    I have said Leah is banned since I want this a safe space for Lesbians and women, and we have answered him, as my original post also answered him. Will he respect my saying no?

    Like

  88. Bev Jo says:

    No, of course he hasn’t. We have answered Leah. Men cannot be women. He can read my post, which he clearly hasn’t. Demanding to be accepted by a group he oppresses does not make him part of the group. He shows not the slightest care or concern for the “women’s spaces” he destroys, or the identity he appropriates. He also never explained what he did in “women’s space” that he described as “freaking out.” Not enough attention paid him?

    So here again, is a man who will not take no for an answer. I know what I call that.

    Last night a group of Lesbians, some gay men and some het couples were in a Lesbian-owned cafe listening to a women’s band. This was in the same location that the “Trans March” began last night in San Francisco. Yet no trans came into the cafe until the end. (Though I did see one woman outside on the street, naked from the below the waist up (her trousers pulled down to her crotch so her “manly” abdominal hair was displayed as was her mastectomied chest. This was clearly for display since it was in the fifties, foggy, drizzly, and everyone else in jackets and coats.) What was clearly a man posing as a woman, and what was a feminine woman with a buzz cut and leather jacket, who I’m assuming believes she’s a man arrived and seemed to be a couple. The man just stood there, but the woman glared at every woman around her, as if daring us to say something to them. She kept looking and looking for conflict. This was a public place, and we all ignored them.

    Like

  89. SheilaG says:

    Good call Bev. Enough is enough.

    Like

  90. S. says:

    “I want to also make it clear I appreciate your comments, S!

    I am not able to stop Leah from posting, but am able to delete, so this will be interesting since I’m going out to the Dyke March.”

    I hope you have a great Dyke March. It’s okay to delete what I posted. I know you and I share many of the same concerns. I trust your judgment. I just wanted to vent some of my righteous rage.

    Thank you,

    Much respect and love

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Of course I won’t delete you, S. I appreciate your comments! Much respect and love to you too! xoxox

      I was talking about trying to stop Leah from posting here. Of course he just keeps doing it. As I said, not taking know for an answer.

      Like

  91. Bev Jo says:

    Leah continues to post, completely ignoring my saying no by asking him not to, just as I thought he would. He can say he is involved with a Lesbian all he wants, but, by definition, any woman involved with a man, like he is, is not a Lesbian. He will never know what it is like to be a Lesbian or to be sexual with a Lesbian.

    Like

  92. BadDyke says:

    “I go by my own standards, which is exactly what a woman does. Men are to rigid and think on a narrow line of structure, I do not.”
    Seems to just be a garbled version of the men are logical and linear, women are intuitive and in touch with their emotions stereotypical garbage. Akin to M2Ts who insist on going on and on about how often they cry or have a panic attack when a lesbian refuses to pander to their fantasy.

    Like

  93. SheilaG says:

    The genderists have this view of female as flexible and male as rigid– the same old patriarchal thinking that has always relegated women to second class status… the status males assign us at birth. We are assigned “flexibility” and this means that males who can claim anything on earth then are allowed into our worlds, so they can tell us how we are. Leah is just another example of this. He tells us who lesbians are, he expects us to “flexibly” allow his het self to translate into HIS identification of the moment. He is male, he decides he can be flexible, and that is true according to his patriarchal mind. He knows all, he colonizes the female body with an appropriated stereotype of a women, who are acting in a male dictated fashion to begin with. What he has just done is “assigned” gender roles to us, as men always do. Lesbians are not flexible according to men, our bodies are not male property, and we choose radical freedom. If we are butches, we never conformed to anything the male world assigned us at birth. Because we authentically female, and we fully love the female. Men hate females, the have nothing but contempt for the women who are slaves. The trans movement is just a reactionary patriarchal movement, that’s all it ever will be. They come here to disrupte the few places where authentic women’s communication occurs. That’s all they know, and since women are “flexible” we are supposed to listen to their drival, be inundated by their self absorbtion their complete absense of authentic communication skills, they just bust on in. The male self centered gender assignment game is in full progress, they neither read our words nor understand who we are, because the are the ruling sex class, we are expected to be mentally colonized by them, to be flexible the way men want women to be sexually available to them..
    it is all about male supremacy, and they’re always inventing new ways to negate our existense as women loving women, as dykes, as butches who don’t collude in our oppression at all.

    Like

  94. Leah says:

    “Seems to just be a garbled version of the men are logical and linear, women are intuitive and in touch with their emotions stereotypical garbage. Akin to M2Ts who insist on going on and on about how often they cry or have a panic attack when a lesbian refuses to pander to their fantasy.”

    I did not say logical or linear, I actually say what I meant and nothing garbled. Men are rigid and don`t budge, I have to often fight them if it`s not their way. They will only see what they wish to see and it`s often their way. You insist you`re talking to a man, and you`re not.I am quite aware of what you`re saying, and what you`re doing, and it can stop now please. I am a woman and lesbian and quite proud of it. I don`t let men tell me ‘no’, what makes you think I will let you tell me ‘no’.

    Also, SheilaG, I am not male. I am female authentically, learn to accept it. Also I am flexible, yes, that means I actually listen to people with an open mind instead of closing my ears going “lalala” and post a long unnecessary statement that only again twists my words around as an oppressive movement. I live a matriarch life, I am a femiminist, I have now for over 6 years from marches to donations to even speaches. You`re “assigning” me a gender role by going “what is between your legs?”, yet had I not said anything in my first post none of you would ever have noticed. Instead I decided to speak in a advocate way, and I get the tomatoes. ‘we never conformed to anything the male world assigned us at birth’, and yet that is exactly what you`re doing to me. I communicate well, I am not a fool and I am not enjoying what is being said to me. Oh my how things are looking now…defending myself on rights, voice, and freedom against people who oppress and inisist still now to tell me no on who I am or will ever be and refuse to care and only listen to their own beliefs. I did not even want this, yet I post once and Bev Jo says “People can’t change sex any more than they can change species. When those in a power position claim the identity of those they oppress, it’s even more wrong.” just to be intentionally be passive-aggressive to start new trouble. You can change sex, but you can`t change gender…there is a difference, one is just your physical shell that millions of people change every day, and then there is gender that never changes and it is created from birth inside your head of who you are. I am being true to who I am, I know I am a woman, and no human force on earth can take that away from me…especially not people claiming to be “lesbians” who rather opress all men and women who doesn`t see eye-to-eye to them. You have labeled even yourselves, you play the games created by men too. You could say you love women and that`s it, but no you call yourselves dykes, butches, etc…titles created by men. I am a woman, and I love women and with a true burning passion that just doesn`t exist with men and communicate to women to share experiences with life itself that has be gracefully given to me by my mother and grandmother who smiles at me from above. I kiss my lover and it is like our minds meld with all the memories and feelings going into sync and the world around it is gone and no men or any of you exist in that moment. Do you love women really, or you just hate men and that is when you drew the label “lesbian” onto yourself? Do you really love women, or they just became “2nd option”? I suspect you really don`t care, you did just as men do and take what you can get. I am done with the labels, the comparisions, the games, and the “who can win” joke. I a woman, and at least I define myself in my own way and not separate from others. Do that, then you can talk about how men “assign” crap to people.

    One thing to note, when you say you`re a woman…you`re doing it by men`s definition already, because if I was able to wish my ways anyone can be whatever they please…because I like to be as I desire, but sadly we live in a world were you have to be “A or B” for many things, else nobody will fit you in.

    Like

  95. S. says:

    “I am a woman and lesbian and quite proud of it”

    Leah, do you still have a penis? Isn’t a penis a male organ? There is nothing wrong with having a penis, but women don’t have penises. Kids usually learn this by kindergarten. If you underwent SRS and now have a surgically created “neo-vagina”, a neo-vagina is not the exact same thing as a vagina. You do seem like a rather intelligent person, and I wish you well, but this is getting rather old.

    I know you can read, so get out a biology book and an anatomy book.

    As a biological female who was born a girl child from a mother’s womb, please believe me when I say my life experiences are entirely different than yours. Here is another question for you. Do you really believe you know how lesbians (biological females) feel when they experience sexual pleasure? Well, heck no you don’t. The physiology and anatomy of biological males and biological females are completely different. I hate to tell you this, but women experience sexual pleasure differently than men. While you might call yourself a woman and lesbian, you have never, and will never experience sexual pleasure in the exact same way as a biological female. It’s not going to happen. That would be like me claiming that I’m a man, and I know how men feel when they ejaculate. Leah, if you really claim to know exactly how biological females feel, and you honestly believe you experience everything from a female perspective, you really are delusional. This assumption that just because you say are a woman that you know how women feel is, to me, extremely demeaning to women, and lesbians in particular. The incredible intimate and earth shattering sexual response that a biological female feels is entirely different than the way men feel when they are aroused. You simply will never be able to feel exactly how women feel no matter how much you prattle on about “being a woman”. Because I respect you as a person, I will never claim to know how you feel, or how you experience sexual pleasure. I know you think that we are giving you a bad time and perhaps even disrespecting you, but it’s really getting awful old by now.

    Leah, what does this mean,

    “One thing to note, when you say you`re a woman…you`re doing it by men`s definition already, because if I was able to wish my ways anyone can be whatever they please.”

    When I read this rather disturbing sentence, then re-read it, I think I understand what your problem is. Please listen to your own words…”when you say you’re a woman…you’re doing it by men’s definition already.” Leah, hell no! I mean freaking hell no. Biological women (XX) DO EXIST. No, men don’t get to define us. See, that is your problem. Finally, the truth is uncovered. Women are assigned gender roles by men, and as you state, “when you say you’re a woman..you’re doing it by men’s definitional already”.. Do you even understand how utterly demeaning this statement is? Leah, you do need help.

    I certainly hope you get some kind of help.

    Like

  96. BadDyke says:

    “You have labeled even yourselves, you play the games created by men too. You could say you love women and that`s it, but no you call yourselves dykes, butches, etc…titles created by men.”

    Hey, a FINE example of transplain’ and how we’re not doing ‘lesbian’ right!

    “I am quite aware of what you`re saying, and what you`re doing, and it can stop now please.” Tee-hee, the menz just don’t like being disagreed with do they?

    “yet had I not said anything in my first post none of you would ever have noticed”
    Same ole fantasy. Sorry dear. but your maleness is blindingly obvious.

    “and then there is gender that never changes and it is created from birth inside your head of who you are.”

    THIS is why we will fight you to the bitter end, because YOU want to claim that we as women are DIFFERENT inside the head (like you suposedly), whereas we say that your innate gender is a load of utter patriarchal crap, and DANGEROUS to women and girls and lesbians.

    You’re MALE, in every cell of your body, and you’re MALE in every instant of your upbringing, and THAT can never change, no matter what mutilating surgeries or hormone regimes you embrace. What fantasies about magic inner femaleness that you have been forced or conned into by whatever it was in your male life, has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with actual biological females or the actual life experiences of biological females, and never will.

    “Do you love women really, or you just hate men and that is when you drew the label “lesbian” onto yourself?”
    Yep, another I’m doing lesbian better than you (cos we’re just man-hating radfems). Except I think the disgust at masculinity isn’t coming from us, but it’s all yours, because how more extreme could man-hating get, than hating what you unchangably ARE (male), and rather than coming to terms with that, you instead deny it, and appropriate what you never can be (female).

    What you think you are, I say again, has NOTHING to do with women and lesbians, but everything to do with the unchangable maleness that you seek to deny.

    Like

  97. Bev Jo says:

    I had asked Mr. Leah to leave, but he kept not taking no for an answer. I’ll leave his last comments though since you answered him so well, Bad Dyke and S.!!!

    However, I will not say I respect him in any way, on any level. He is simply a man appropriating our identity and lecturing women on what a woman is. He us just one more man refusing to take no for an answer.

    Again, he shows his male arrogance and lack of knowledge about females on so many levels. Very parasistic behavior. And classic male re-defining of who women are. Clearly he did not read my blog or he would not accuse us of being like men or becoming Lesbians because of hatred of men. (When you love females, you do end up hating men as a group when you see their war on us, on so many levels.)

    It is way beyond his male attitudes, body, and mind. No, he can never have a female vulva. But he also can never have a female heart and soul. The differences between females and males are deep and real.

    Of course we just say no when a man insists he’s a woman. Does he think we have not met and read many, many like him? They all have the same basic line, which wavers between self-pity and threatening to rape and kill us. None of them sound remotely like a real woman or real Lesbian. Not even close. Their main motivating factor seems to be extreme narcissism. That is also something they share with able-bodied men who want to be paraplegic as well as the white men who try to appropriate African and Indian identities.

    So no, I refuse to accept any man as a woman. They oppress us. Similarly I refuse to accept any white man who claims the identity of People of Color. I also refuse to accept any man who claims to be a Lesbian who is also pretending to be a paraplegic and who uses disabled services and invades disabled Lesbian space. More seem to understand about the last (but this is still all on a continuum of men appropriating the identity of people they oppress.)

    Gallus did a brilliant post about the able-bodied trannie claiming to be a disabled Lesbian (who brags about making his wheelchair fall over in order to get the attention and sympathy of Lesbians at the Dyke March) —

    GenderTrender

    National Geographic’s “Taboo” : Fake paraplegic Chloe Jennings-White

    Like

  98. S. says:

    Bev, thanks for dealing with Mr. Leah. People would feel outrage if a white person puts on black face and struts around claming to be a person of color. It’s kind of like trampling on the culure and history of an oppressed people. When men claim they are lesbians, in all honesty, it feels like total co-option and annilation of my love for women. It feels sort of like a rape of my lesbian identity. Besides the obvious biological differences between men and women, I can sense a different energy between men and women.

    I recentely checked out a book at the public library entitled, “Unnatural Selection” by Mara Hvistendahl. This book is well researched and I like her fluid and easy to read writing stye. According to her research, if Asia’s sex ratio remained at its natural equilibrium, the continent would have an additional 163 million more girls. Through sex selective abortions, 163 girls were erased fromt the earth. Sex selective abortions have been going on in China and India since the mid 1970s. Of course, female infanticide was documented in India in the 1700s. Instead of killing female infants, now they abort them before they are even born. Although sex selective abortions are banned in China and India, they still occur. It is so hard to wrap my mind around 163 million girls being erased from the earth. This is equal to the entire female population in the U.S. The combined populations of China and India make up about one third of the global population. Instead of the105 male to 100 female sex ratio which demographers and scientists say is the norm, the sex ratio of the whole world is now 107 males to 100 females. Why should people care, and what does this mean? Societies with a large male population tend to be unpleasant and ruthless places in which to live. Moreover, this ultimately means some men won’t be able to find wives. Large groups of single young men generally means more crime and more social instability.

    If you get the chance, check out this book. I have to admit that it left me depressed. Again, thanks for dealing with Leah.

    Like

  99. SheilaG says:

    163 million girls gone. All in a day’s work within patriarchy. That’s what it is all about. And if this doesn’t speak volumes, I don’t really know what will wake women up worldwide to the evil of male supremacy.
    As a lesbian, I have told women for decades to stop marrying men, stop having children, just stop the whole thing. Focus your energy on women, and pull the plug to give males as little energy and resources as is humanly possible for each woman to do.
    Lesbian feminism gone global in a big way would really change the world for women. Break the addiction to male approval, break the need to even let a male voice onto a blog to begin with… always a mistake Bev to even let those creeps comment here.

    Like

  100. Bev Jo says:

    Thanks, S!
    Sheila, I wanted to let him hang himself with his comments, which for those not sure, was good proof of how male these men are, no matter what games they play. I certainly wasn’t looking for his approval! xoxo

    Like

  101. SheilaG says:

    Yeah, the do hang themselves every darn time don’t they.

    Like

  102. S. says:

    While this doesn’t have anything to do with the subject at hand, I feel compelled to vent my utter sense of deep sorrow at another horrific mass murder. When I heard the news about another shooting in a mall, my heart sank. I am literally numb with grief, as if my whole soul and psyche are stunned and can’t wrap my mind around such carnage. I do admit, however, that I am not the least bit surprised.

    If one were to go back thirty years and examine every school shooting from Columbine to Virginia Tech, and every horrific shopping mall massacre, the only one common thread is this. These are young men between the ages of about fifteen or six-teen years of age to around age forty. Of course, everyone trots out the same underlying reasons for these senseless brutal acts. First, the gun control advocates say the issue is gun control. That is, we need to restrict the ownership of weapons. Well, I’ve been something of a gun control advocate. It does make sense to me and seems logical. Upon careful scrutiny, this still doesn’t explain what is really going on. This is only partially true. The U.S. is awash with guns, and women definitely have access to weapons just like males do. Any woman can walk into a gun shop and purchase weapons. Second, some prattle on ad nauseum about the pervasive violence that saturates the media. Violent movies, video games, and violence in our society cause these bloody massacres. Yes, we do have way too much violence in our society, and I’ve always said that children shouldn’t be exposed to this level of violence. Of course, this isn’t healthy for the development of children. We all know this. Still, this doesn’t entirely explain what is going on. Girls are exposed to as much violence, and in many cases, more violence than males. However, girls aren’t shooting up school yards, shopping malls, or movie theatres. Third, many people point to the beleaguered mental health system. That is, mentally unstable people don’t have access to mental health counseling and treatment. Distressed and emotionally unstable people definitely need access to mental health counseling and appropriate treatment. Doesn’t this lack of access to mental health equally impact both males and females? There isn’t one mental health system of men and one mental health system for females. So, what is going on?

    Again, I ask the reader to go back thirty years.

    Columbine……young males with guns
    The senseless Amish school massacre…a distraught male with weapons
    Virginia Tech….a young male with access to weapons
    The bloody shoot out in Arizona…a young male fully loaded
    The recent massacre at a movie theatre…a disturbed young man with weapons

    Whether we have the courage to admit it or not, there is only one constant in all these horrific massacres. Testosterone and weapons are an extremely deadly mixture. Oh, my, I said something I dare not even whisper. We intuitively know it, but we don’t admit it. In my opinion, males should not be allowed to own weapons. Only females should own guns. There I’ve said it. Someone needs to speak the truth. For some reason, males are attracted to weapons, but they can’t handle them.

    Like

    • jane hathaway says:

      I agree with you, S. But, unfortunately, not only would almost all men oppose that, also most women would, too. Some women would want be allowed to arm *their* men, *their* sons. Other, liberal women, would rather make it illegal for anyone, men OR women, to have guns. I don’t have a gun. I live with one woman (not my partner) who stated flat-out that if I ever had one, I could not stay in her house. And my lesbian partner (with whom I don’t yet live) said the exact same thing. She suggested I could get a stun gun instead ….

      Like

  103. Bev Jo says:

    I don’t think of talking about this as if it could ever become reality. Yes, many women will want males armed, and liberals are against anyone having guns. The pacifism of your friend could endanger you and is not fair. Stun guns are far riskier in that you would have to be within reach of an attacker and therefore could be disarmed, and they can’t be used against a group. Guns would probably be easier to control and take less training.

    Again the focus sounds more like it’s on protecting the attacker instead of you. So what to do if a group of men try to break into your house? What is this ban on guns really about? I always end up thinking that owning guns just isn’t lady-like. How dare we even consider and discuss something that many men and boys take for granted?

    Like

  104. BadDyke says:

    “Whether we have the courage to admit it or not, there is only one constant in all these horrific massacres. Testosterone and weapons are an extremely deadly mixture…”

    Or at least male socialisation and guns. Yes, as you say, it’s the elephant in the room, no one ASKS why it is ONLY males that commit these crimes, we’re so USED to males commiting violent crimes that no one even mentions it any more, we just expect it — as long as we don’t SAY that males are inherently more violent than females, so shouldn’t be trusted with automatic weapons………….

    Why is it these particular males that commit these crimes, that is the question that is asked. Seems that we are just socialised so that desperate females tend to just kill themselves without putting anyone else to any inconvenience (okay, I know the suiclde rates for young males are bad as well that isn’t the point) — whereas desperate young males, with their MALE sense of entitlement, decide to go out with a bang and take a whole load of innocent others with them, or just take out a whole load of others and go for the fame factor.

    Just noticed, Wiki not so bad on this actual says:
    “One “trait” that has not yet attracted as much attention is the gender difference: nearly all school shootings are perpetrated by young males, and in some instances the violence has clearly been gender-specific. Bob Herbert addressed this in an October 2006 New York Times editorial.[7] Only two female school shooting incidents have been documented.[8][9]”

    New york times editorial actually pretty good as well:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/16/opinion/16herbert.html?_r=2&n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op-Ed%2fOp-Ed%2fColumnists%2fBob%20Herbert&oref=slogin

    Like

  105. S. says:

    Why are boys and men allowed to terrorize women and children on our streets, in our shopping malls, and even in theatres? Three thousand people died on 9/11. This was terrorism, and the U.S. spent billions of dollars, and even started an illegal war against Iraq all in the name of dreaded and evil “terrorism”.

    According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States,
    There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides, with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.

    We can’t even stop the terrorism on our streets or in our movie theatres. Because boys and men associate guns and all types of weapons with masculinity, this type of terrorism is taken for granted. The women and children terrorized in this recent bloody rampage will no doubt feel the impact of this senseless terrorism for the rest of their lives. Their physical scars might heal, but the emotional scars will never heal. In this respect, they are no different than the victims that survived the tragedy of 9/11 in this respect.

    Men need to give up their guns and stop terrorizing women and children. This is terrorism, and we should start calling it as such. Some act as if their gun is as important to them as their penis.

    Like

  106. S. says:

    Sorry for the typos in my post……serious subject……..very sad…

    Like

  107. Bev Jo says:

    Thanks, Bad Dyke. It’s always good to see some media backing of the truth. It’s so upsetting when “feminists” recently discussed “people raping people” in the occupy movement. But I don’t blame socialization entirely. It contributes, but people around domestic animals know the males are extremely dangerous if not castrated. And then we know that many males are still dangerous. I think early castration helps in preventing some of the violence males commit, but they still can never become females.

    I agree, S., about the government not wanting to stop terrorism of males against females. Patriarchy wants women afraid, ironically to be afraid to be without men to “protect” them.

    I do want to add, though, that I believe the terrorism from 9/11 was actually done by who really is in power in the US government, just as the US assassinations were (and also some of the assassinations that ended democratic governments for dictatorships in other countries). Anyone who is really in the government who wants to change things for the better have to know they will just be killed by “a lone gunman.” There are several documentaries showing how 9/11 was done, which are quite convincing. The motive certainly was there also, all benefiting the US ruling class.

    It’s old feminist theory that guns are synonymous with pricks, and the Marine Corps has soldiers do the chant equating the two (“This is my penis, this is my gun. One is for killing, one is for fun.”) Of course, they often use both on the same women.

    Don’t worry about typos, ever!

    Like

  108. technocrone says:

    I am SO happy to have found your blog and especially this post. I found all my no-I’m-not-pro-trans-and-here’s-why arguments articulated clearly here, complete with references, so I feel much better equipped to debate those of my oh-so-liberal friends who say to me, “Don’t tell me your transphobic!” as if that’s something horrible, even despicable.
    I’ve been an out Lesbian for decades (actually I’m not sure I was ever “in”), a radical feminist for at least that long, and a separatist (at least politically) since 1976, and the whole issue of mtf trans folk has always made me extremely uneasy. The question “How can a man become a woman?” has never been satisfactorily answered for me (perhaps because there isn’t any answer), and their ever-increasing intrusions into woman-only space have left me speechless with fury.
    My son, a gay man and political activist with several trans friends, has suggested that I get to know some trans people, and I have done so, but that hasn’t helped me understand them any better — in fact, I’d have to say the opposite is true. Now I know why. If it looks like a man (or like a male fantasy of how a “real woman” is “supposed” to look) and thinks like a man and talks like a man and asserts privilege like a man and claims the “rights” of a man and disrespects women like a man, it’s probably a man, even without the dick.
    Thanks for writing about this.

    Like

  109. Bev Jo says:

    Thank you so much! I’m surprised we haven’t met sooner since I’ve been writing as a Separatist since 1972. It’s always nice to meet more!

    Like

  110. esperma says:

    Hey there, I just wanted to ask if you ever have any problems with hackers?
    My last joomla blog at http://bevjoradicallesbian.
    wordpress.com/2011/03/15/bev-jo-radical-lesbian-writing/ was hacked and I ended up losing
    two days of hard work due to no backup. Do you have any ideas to stop
    It’s a pity you don’t have a donate button.
    I’m Kirby from Hillegom, and I would definitely donate to this awesome blog. I suppose for now I’ll accept book-marking and posting your
    RSS feed to my Google account. I look forward to
    new content and will will display this site on my Facebook group and on my blog.
    See you later. As an aside, is your theme custom made or did
    you download it from someplace? A look like your own with a
    few small modifications would truly make my website come alive.

    Tell me where you got your template when you get the chance.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Hi Kirby, I tried to email and it was returned, so will try to answer here. No, I’ve never been hacked, although I did get a virus sent in an email regarding my warning our community about Lesley Smith pretending to be a trannie to trash Gallus in her post about the horrible man suing to legally expose himself to girls in their school locker room. My virus protection caught it immediately. I’m sorry that happened but have never heard of that with anyone else.

      Anyway, I really don’t know much about blogging or computers. My masthead is a photo I took of the magnificent Puya from the Andes that blooms in our Botanical Garden. (Anyone come to visit and I’ll show you if they are in bloom.)

      I’ve been spending too much time posting on facebutt, but really should fully update our book here. (It’s still available in book form also.)

      Thank you so much! What/where is your blog and fb group? I wish I could accept donations, but don’t know how. I do recommend donating to Gallus Mag at GenderTrender for all her wonderful work and tell her I sent you.

      http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/

      Like

  111. druidwinter says:

    Reblogged this on winterdominatrix and commented:
    worth reposting and reading.

    Like

  112. Lizzy Shaw says:

    Awesome article! Yes, more women need to wake up. Lesbians and other women need to stop directing their sympathy at these compulsive lying men. If you refuse to believe that Elliot is female, then you can see him for the creepy man he is. The fact that “feminists” supported him over you shows how successful these dudes have been at colonizing feminist spaces. It’s interesting to me that Elliot seems to have multiple personas. He was a “lesbian” then a “bisexual woman” and it seems that he may have claimed to be a gay man at some point if his racist rants were showing up in gay publications. He was doing the pre-internet thing of what these trans dudes do today. Have multiple online accounts under different names and restart when people catch onto your bs. Make up instances of people being mean to you (even if you were the one being a stalker) so that you get sympathy. Since we have internet now this happens much faster, but it was interesting that the pattern was there pre-internet.

    I think that there is a such thing as rape by deception and these dudes do it all the time. I had one try to pull that on me and as a result I’m super-paranoid about who I date. They think lesbians only exist to validate their identities.

    I agree that these dudes act more male than a lot of other dudes. I sure got a lot more violent threats from them than your run-of-the-mill misogynist who is not in denial about being a man, that’s for sure. I think most of them are considered “failures” at being men and so they go off and bother lesbians. I can’t imagine someone like Elliot getting that much power so fast in a more mainstream group.

    Women are not castrated men and it’s baffling how men colonizing being a woman is okay, but being “trans-race” or “trans-abled” is not. It’s all the same thing, someone in a position of power colonizing and fetishizing a group they have power over. It is no coincidence that most MTTs are heterosexual and white and that the outnumber the FTTs by about 3:1. It’s also no coincidence that most FTTs are lesbians or would be if they weren’t trying to surgically alter themselves.

    Yes, it’s time for everyone to wake up and live in reality. These dudes do real damage to lesbian groups and even towards services directed towards women in general. Can you imagine an actual women suing a rape crisis center because she wasn’t allowed to volunteer? Or joking about how she has raped a ton of women? Every time you see a woman doing something weird, check again because it might really be a man.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thank you! I’m wondering how many of the women saying they are men are now choosing to be het or bisexual since the numbers of those saying they are gay men are increasing.

      Elliott was writing his racist rants in a “Gay and Lesbian” newspaper as a Lesbian. Since he identifies in some places as bisexual, then he is definitely interacting with gay men. It seems like he was trying every possible way to be famous, from writing badly to singing off key, and in venues where it was not possible to say no to him. He also was tried to win Ms. Leather Alameda County. A friend said he did win since he was the only contestant.

      But yes, the damage the female impersonators do to all females is very real.

      Like

  113. JS says:

    Thanks for your excellent article “Defining Lesbians Out of Existence: Transwomen are merely castrated men” and for daring to speak out. Thanks for showing us who these men are, what they really think and “feel” – vicious misogyny. I know from my own experience of defending women-only space (a women’s center) during a number of years that everything your write about these men’s behavior and politics is true.

    As feminists and lesbians we have all met these men, usually when they attack women-only or lesbian-only spaces and projects. Most of these men (“MTFs”) prove their maleness through their behavior and assert their male power in many ways. Their arrogance and male sense of entitlement is appalling: like other men, they believe they have the right to be everywhere, including in women-only space, against our will. True to their rapist mentality, they ignore our objections and our “no.” They truly believe they have a right to force women to obey them. When we refuse they lash out in woman- hating and lesbian-hating, with verbal and physical attacks. As males, they believe that women exist for their sake, and if we refuse to give in to any man’s wish, we should be threatened and forced into submission. If that does not work, they bully and guilt-trip women into feeling sorry for them, which often results in women giving up what little they have for these men’s sake. Nothing crushes a girls’ developing self more than training her (through threats, violence and guilt-tripping) to care for males and ignore or actively destroy everything women have or want. The fact that so many women/lesbians allow these men into everything feminist and women-only is one devastating effect of this socialization. Why is this betrayal of other women/lesbians/feminism not recognized as the vicious woman-hating it is? There can of course be other reasons for this betrayal – money, careers and acceptance in male political movements, but the woman-hating and the result is the same – women lose everything and men win in every possible way.

    These men hate and despise women, like other men they don’t care one bit about what women want. They only care about themselves and about getting what they as males want: access to and service from women, physical and sexual access to women, being at the center of women’s attention, dividing women, getting women to fight for the “right” of castrated men/men in drag to be in women-only space (even though very few females/lesbian believe these men are “women”, most women pretend to go along out of fear). These men love the fact that they have succeeded in destroying so many feminist and lesbian women-only projects. They have attacked, harassed and often managed to close down, i.e. totally destroy, women-only groups, events, festivals and demonstrations, women’s centers, and lesbian centers. They have sued battered women’s shelters and rape crisis lines who have refused to admit them into safe space for women. When all else fails these men physically invade women-only spaces and events: they simply burst in, refuse to leave, and engage in abusive, violent and threatening behavior. What will it take for other women/lesbians to wake up?
    JS

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thank you so much. I’m not sure what will reach women about knowing the difference between women and men, and Lesbians and men. Seeing how much they hate us and knowing the facts about what they have done should help, but really so many women seem afraid to think at all. Which is why I coined the term “trans cult.”

      Like

  114. K.Jane says:

    This post is awesome! Seriously, it is hopefully powerful enough to un-brainwash people. I’m so sick of hearing about how sexual predators pretending to be women, especially lesbians, are the most oppressed group ever on the planet and in history. These men are sexual predators, but when I try to point that out, I either get called a bigot or told that they’re not “real transexuals” even though most former LGB organizations are run by these men. Usually “real transexuals” means gay dudes who took the drag thing too far or females who want to be gay men. A lot of people still believe that lie that you need extensive therapy to “transition” but in Canada it’s a-ok for cross-dressing male’s to use the women’s bathroom. I don’t believe that the medical establishment can change your sex anymore that I believe in the Easter Bunny. The problem is, you have to be on board with this pseudo-religion or else.

    “Progressive” men say that they don’t mind FtMs in the men’s room. Of course not. The odds of a FtM raping a man are very low. If I point to examples of these men raping lesbians and other women, they’re exceptions to the rule, and it doesn’t happen, if I point out that one of them tried to pull the rape by deception thing on me then I’m generalizing and that’s bad because they’re more oppressed than me. Don’t you know that they might get beat up by other dudes in male-on-male violence that’s supposed to be a priority for lesbians to take care of for some reason? I mean, it’s not as if lesbians and other women ever get beaten up by dudes and it’s not as if gay men don’t get beaten for being gay and it’s not as if black folks don’t get beaten by the police for being black. Oh wait.

    These men are just women-haters and lesbian-haters, but they’re far more dangerous than most other men because so many women and liberals have bought into their bullshit. I know some leftist men who don’t buy it and can of course point out that they are really men without the rape and death threats, but not like it’s a priority to them. Why would it be; trans aren’t a threat to them. Really the only way out is for lesbians and all other women to wise up to this bullshit. Thanks for taking the time to put together such a great post!

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thank you too, for that excellent comment! When I recently met a Leftist white man on the street in Berkeley who was asking for donations for his group about his position on trans, he told me to talk to the “transwoman” in their group, who was across the street and looked and sounded like an extreme drag queen gay male stereotype. I told him I wasn’t going to talk to a man pretending to be a woman and asked if he would date him. The look on his face said it all — a mixture of fear and disgust. He did not know what to say. It’s okay for him to tell us we should let these men fuck us, but not for them to be fucked by them.

      Like

      • k.jane39 says:

        Late reply, but you are so right! Liberal men try to gaslight us into believing that they are really women, so it’s totally fine for them to share spaces with us. But they know they are not really women. That should be a new thing. When a het man defends them, ask him to date “her”. Also ask gay men defending this to date “trans men”. It seems like that could be a good way to cut through the gaslighting.

        I think liberal men fawn over dudes pretending to be women precisely because they are men. More support for the male-dude-brotherhood. There’s also no way a real woman would get away with the amount of shit these guys pull. I recall that man pretending to be a woman mentioned on gendertrender who to commuting rape to try to impregnate a female, but for a group of people allegedly against rape culture, liberals and liberal feminists were awfully silent about it. Trans is the get out misogyny and being punished for being a rapist card for liberals.

        The above is another example of how bad it is to lie about the sexes involved. In queer-trans land, it was a woman raping a man, because the woman was is a FTT. But in reality, it was the same old, incredibly common, man raping a woman story. More proof that women can’t identify out of oppression by claiming to be a man and that “queering” gender roles doesn’t do anything to help. In fact, it’s better to avoid men into queering gender roles because holy shit do they get into weird sexual stuff and go above and beyond to protect the rapists.

        Like

  115. ps135 says:

    Super useful writing, so grateful to have organised radical source to refer to. Whenever I have to explain to my liberal feminist friends I always cite back to your writing Bev. I hope that one day I have enough capability to make a translation so that the misguided here can be informed, as there are many third wave materials and not enough of women for women. Both in academic field (as much as I hate the notion of academic source or language) and popular media. Take care and be safe. I am safe enough where I live not because of a better environment but because we are not so visible (which is good and bad at the same time). Sending love from Southeast and East Asia.

    Like

  116. Great writing. I always refer back to you Bev whenever I have to explain to my third wave friends, which is tiring. Hope that one day I have enough capability to do a translation so that the misguided here can be informed. There aren’t enough radical materials in both academic field here (as much as I hate the notion of academic source or language). Be safe and take care. We are safe here where I live not because of a better environment but invisibility (good and bad at the same time). Sending love from Southeast and East Asia. xx

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thank you So much, Siripitcha! It’s good to know I can help. At this point, any resources in print can make a difference. I’m glad you’re safe, but yes, good and bad.

      Love back to you! xoxoxo

      Like

  117. J.D. says:

    Do you know why these irrational transwomen gets so much attention? Because women give it to them. Women are socialized to take male rhetoric as valid unless proved otherwise. So, they entertain these people and attempt to disprove their points or conduct conversations with them, as if they were the rational and sensible people that they absolutely are not. They don’t deserve this, and it shouldn’t be given to them. If somebody comes to you and says: “the Earth is flat,” is it sensible to argue with them about how the Earth actually isn’t flat, or to accept the fact that for someone to even arrive at such an insane conclusion, there must be something vast and profound wrong with them and so they don’t deserve a moment of your time? The same is true for the trans assertions of: “my penis is female” or “lesbians not having sex with transwomen is prejudice” or “misgendering is literal violence against trans people.” These statements have all the sense of the gin-soaked ramblings of a disheveled lunatic standing at the street corner, screaming at passers-by about the impending alien apocalypse. They are not rational arguments to be debated with, because there is no possibility of intelligent conversation with a person who shares neither an understanding of language nor an attachment to reality with you. So, please, let us all stop conversing with these people. They do not deserve our attention. Their inappropriate interjections of self-importance, appropriations of language that don’t apply to them, and endless claims of victimhood at every turn and on every topic, are clear evidence of serious mental illness. So, they need treatment, not a venue with which to broadcast their illness at others. They need to be ignored or otherwise not taken seriously, rather than being entertained — to any degree — about their extensive vacations from objective reality. That will do more to silence their insanity than attempting to negotiate with them about the validity of their claims. Because these are people that, by definition, suffer an illness that causes them to perceive something as true when all evidence points to the contrary. Sense does not exist in such a person, and if it is possible to cultivate it in them, it is not the responsibility of private individuals, but rather the healthcare system and mental health professionals, to instill that sense within them. Until that comes to be the case, I believe that we should give our energy to what is valid: the LGBQ community, female issues, racial issues, poverty issues, and other important matters of society and culture. These topics are deserving of our time and efforts, and we show that they matter and that the senseless ramblings and harassments of trans community members do not, by directing our energy appropriately. We do not owe them an ear, an eye, or a moment. But, we do owe it to ourselves and the communities we live in, to direct our time where it is deserved. Our silence towards these senseless individuals will, itself, speak volumes of how undeserving they are of our attention. And, either these individuals will acquire sense to earn our attention justly, or they can fall into silence or waste the time of others who care less for their moments and efforts. And if a valid issue should come up in another aspect of our communities which indirectly or directly involves trans individuals, let us show our choice of the valuation of topics still, by concentrating on the other aspects of it rather than getting caught up in their hysteria. To those trans individuals who show both respect and sense, and an understanding of the true state of objective existence, they are deserving of our time and respect as much as any other person. While these individuals are, in my experience, a minority, perhaps giving them attention while depriving undeserving others of it will help to shift things towards a more positive end. Or, failing that, at least our time will be given only to those who deserve it rather than those who don’t.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Well said! I mostly agree, except that being mentally ill is no excuse. For the men claiming to be women, it’s all about sexual fetish. And the mental “health” industry and psychologists and medical system are a major part of the problem by encouraging these men in all the harm that they do. (Anyone claiming to be a “professional” is likely to be classist also.) Nothing will get them to change.

      We never asked to be added to a group with our oppressors, so I don’t think we should focus on helping “GB” either. Why not Lesbians, who give to everyone but ourselves? I agree the others issues you names are essential too. Why on earth are these privileged, most white and middle class men prioritized? As a friend said, because they are men and everyone knows it.

      You’re right, the women who keep supporting them have become the real problem since they could stop this in terms of “women’s community,” but instead they make sure we have no women only spaces left by welcoming those men, no matter how vile or pornographic or sado-masochistic they are.

      I agree that it’s best to not give them what most demand, which is access to Lesbians and women. (And the pressure is on us. No one is demanding gay men give sexual access to Pat Califia and other bisexual fag hags.)

      It’s also essential to keep saying no and the truth. Men are not and can never be women. “Transwomen” do not exist. Nothing “trans” is real.

      Like

      • J.D. says:

        More than anything, I just feel so imposed upon. Nobody asked us if they could come into our bathrooms or locker rooms or changing rooms, they just imposed this legislation on us, such that now we have males in our spaces. That is the very essence of disrespect. If you have to step on a group of people to give others rights, then what you’re giving them isn’t “rights” at all — because no person has the “right” to disrespect another. If they had gone about this the right way, they would have asked us instead of imposing it on us, or assuming it was alright.

        I really, so desperately want female-only spaces back — with absolutely all my heart and soul. Because, there was nowhere else that a woman was free from expectation or the male gaze. It was a relief. You don’t have to talk to the people in the bathroom or the changing room. Just to know that you don’t have to structure your interactions with them to please some bullshit expectations was a deep relief, and now we don’t even have that anymore. Now, we have fetishists who are taking the opportunity to go into our restrooms to feel a sense of excitement over it, because it appeals to their fetish and gets them off — and that is sick. That is absolutely not what a bathroom, a changing room, or a locker room is for. There are people who aren’t fetishistic, but because the legislation went the way they did, now they’re all allowed into the women’s or men’s rooms, instead of having a gender-neutral stall or set of stalls for them. It was a terrible, terrible resolution that prioritizes a minority population of literal mental patients, over the safety, preferences, and comforts of more than 99% of the population. That doesn’t make sense at all. — And, for the record, every visibly sane trans individual that I’ve spoken to was completely respectful of the idea of gender-neutral bathrooms. They thought it was a good idea and didn’t feel any inclination to be in a restroom where even one person felt uncomfortable with them in it. So, the genuine trans people, rather than the fetishists, would’ve been completely okay with a gender-neutral resolution.

        Honestly, I think that they should do tests to show that it’s not the same for transwomen and women. They need to put sensors on both of them, have them go into public women’s restrooms, and show how some transwomen’s vitals get all excited over the act in a way that isn’t normal or appropriate. It’s not a bathroom, it’s a fetish to them — the same way trying to get lesbians to sleep with their male bodies or pretending to have their periods is (yes, sadly and disturbingly, some of them do this). There may be some who aren’t like that, but all of them are allowed in our spaces right now — that’s the problem. You can’t just say: only mentally-well trans people can come in. Because, how would you enforce that? That’s why we need gender-neutral stalls.

        Either way, we need female-only spaces. That’s something that I’m going to see to when I’m off at college next year. I don’t care if I have to use the living room of my own off-campus apartment to host it, I’m giving women a female-only space to feel like they can unwind. I think we all need to do this for each other. There’s something so nurturing and relaxing about being able to be with people like you, about not having to watch what you say, or fight to be heard. It’s relaxing and it feels safe and wonderful, and I want that not just for me but for other women, as well. We all deserve to know what that feels like, and it’s not something that I will allow to be erased from this world.

        Like

        • Bev Jo says:

          That is a brilliant idea — to actually do an honest study about what happens with men in drag in women’s restrooms. Gallus Mag at GenderTrender did a post with a video years ago showing three men in dresses and makeup cornering an older women who was alone in a women’s restroom and then one pulled up his skirt to expose himself while they laughed at her and humiliated her. She was trying to not hurt their feelings and of course was in danger with the three men.

          But if we get rape and mutilation and death threats for writing about women only space, imagine the reaction to suggesting finding out what are they doing there.

          I so agree about women only space. There is a reason it changed everything for us and also why men and their collaborators have fought so hard against it.

          What I do disagree with though is that I do not believe in any trans or that there are “mentally well trans.” I don’t even care about thinking of them as mentally ill, since we could say that about all males who have sexually harassed and assaulted girls and women (not to mention animals), which would probably be 99%.

          If these “transwomen” were actually okay, why on earth would they call themselves women? Some white trans claim to be Black women, and other white people appropriate Black identity, and it can never be anything but racist. It’s what enemies with privilege do to oppressed people. Same with the able-bodied man who calls himself a “trans paraplegic Lesbian.” If these men who want to be women aren’t female-hating, then they need to stop, and work hard publicly announcing that they and the other are not and never can be women.

          Since these men have so much power, they will keep winning and taking everything we once had, but at least we can be firm by saying no every single time. There are NO “transwomen” and no trans anything. It’s a very female-hating (including the F2Ts) con.

          Otherwise I really agree and appreciate your anger and heartache over this. If only all women realized what you know.

          Like

  118. tinysavage says:

    Wow! This article hit so many points that I can relate to!
    When I think that we are being socially pressured into silence while these bullies are gathering sympathies, I can’t help but think of Rene Magritte and The Treachery of Images.
    When they say they do not have a penis, or become enraged when I say “it is a penis!” , I think of “Ceci n’est pas une pipe”, when they say they are women with penises!
    I am happy you have your space and freedom, but I have yet to find mine. It seems that everywhere I go is a male space , with exception of my home.

    Like

    • Bev Jo says:

      Thank you! It is so upsetting, first, that men take what little women and Lesbians have left, but second, that most women and Lesbians are helping them do it.

      I don’t really have any space and freedom. It’s all about making do and always being aware of what we once had.

      At our local “Women’s March” this Saturday, one of the Lesbian organizations I would like to march with will have their trannie man in charge since all their local information goes through him. There is already no way to go to any of their events without seeing him and no way to contact them without going through his email. (As one old member said, we had no idea he would get into power so quickly.) Another group is marching with them that I’d like to also march with, but that again means having to be around this man in drag who is accepted at a Lesbian. (I was actually told that he’s a Lesbian since he’s married to a woman. I wonder how she feels about going from very privileged het married woman to a “Lesbian” with far less status.)

      It’s worse when it’s an official organization, but most of our Lesbian meetup and social groups have a trannie man member too. Still, we go to public places and meet to be together. Most of the Lesbians have no feminist politics so their wanting to avoid the trannies is just instinctual, but so interesting. If only those of us who knew lived closer!

      Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s